6 ms·

I think it works a lot better when you're 20 because people hire you based on potential. But when you're 30 hiring managers want to see skills. I suppose it c

I think it works a lot better when you're 20 because people hire you based on potential. But when you're 30 hiring managers want to see skills. I suppose it could still work if you're changing careers, but you would need to demonstrate an even higher level of hunger and dedication.

mathattack 11y ago
Very good point. You can only get hired for potential early in your career. This is one reason it's so hard to switch careers later on. Going back to school is the only other way to get a "reset".
wdewind 11y ago
I don't know if that's true. This strategy certainly isn't going to land you a job at Google/FB/etc. but I'd be happy to chat with someone in their 30s who'd just gone through a bootcamp kind of thing and was offering a similar deal as someone who is currently hiring at a startup and we had a position for a junior/recent college grad. To me the biggest snafu is that it's a lot easier to do the whole "I'll work for free" thing when you're 20 and have no responsibilities. I'll also add, though, that there was a huge faith component in myself and in the startup industry that "things would just work out," and I was also miserable in school at the time, so alternatives were bleak. Having worked in the industry I've now been given a dose of reality, but having that kind of dumb faith allowed me to grow very quickly (though painfully, too), and I'm wondering how much that learned risk aversion is hurting my personal growth. That's my big takeaway from this, at least.
- cscharenberg 11y ago
  At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unless you know someone on the inside of a company who can pull strings, you'll never get asked in for an interview. I'm watching my wife - a lawyer with math degree and programming experience - struggle to even get responses for junior QA positions. I think the job market will have to get much tighter before companies start hiring people retraining into software. Hiring processes are optimized for new college grads and people with industry experience. Retraining programs are going to fall on their faces if we can't reform HR to hire smart, motivated people that lack a laundry list of qualifications.
  - waterlesscloud 11y ago
    Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!
    - HillaryBriss 11y ago
      Adding to that paradox, a major theme of the original post is that personal connections are really important to getting a startup job. So, startups are really looking hard outside the founders' circle of friends to find the most qualified applicants?
      - cscharenberg 11y ago
        This is something I commented on recently. Retraining programs and those already in the industry say social networking will get these people jobs. But they have the weakest networks in their new career. Yes, I could reach into 100 companies through my network and get an interview. A new person cannot. The assumption of using social networks is true only for those already established. Longer discussion of that as a comment on this blog post (http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiative.html http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiati...)
    - gizi 11y ago
      Virtual teams do not need to deal with immigration. So, what's next? Immigration offices on the backbones of the internet?
  - wdewind 11y ago
    Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates.
    - jlees 11y ago
      Startups (depending on the size) are both wonderful and terrible places for a new bootcamp grad. There is a lot to learn, and learn quickly, which is something any bootcamp grad has had to master -- but there is often a dearth of mentoring and, as time goes on, patience for junior mistakes. Larger startups are much better than small ones, in my experience working both on the startup and bootcamp (instructor, mentor) sides of the table -- especially larger startups who have already hired from that bootcamp, or a similar one, before. Then you have the alumni-mentor train going, and life is great.

mathattack 11y ago

Very good point. You can only get hired for potential early in your career. This is one reason it's so hard to switch careers later on. Going back to school is the only other way to get a "reset".

wdewind 11y ago

I don't know if that's true. This strategy certainly isn't going to land you a job at Google/FB/etc. but I'd be happy to chat with someone in their 30s who'd just gone through a bootcamp kind of thing and was offering a similar deal as someone who is currently hiring at a startup and we had a position for a junior/recent college grad. To me the biggest snafu is that it's a lot easier to do the whole "I'll work for free" thing when you're 20 and have no responsibilities. I'll also add, though, that there was a huge faith component in myself and in the startup industry that "things would just work out," and I was also miserable in school at the time, so alternatives were bleak. Having worked in the industry I've now been given a dose of reality, but having that kind of dumb faith allowed me to grow very quickly (though painfully, too), and I'm wondering how much that learned risk aversion is hurting my personal growth. That's my big takeaway from this, at least.

cscharenberg 11y ago
At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unless you know someone on the inside of a company who can pull strings, you'll never get asked in for an interview. I'm watching my wife - a lawyer with math degree and programming experience - struggle to even get responses for junior QA positions. I think the job market will have to get much tighter before companies start hiring people retraining into software. Hiring processes are optimized for new college grads and people with industry experience. Retraining programs are going to fall on their faces if we can't reform HR to hire smart, motivated people that lack a laundry list of qualifications.
- waterlesscloud 11y ago
  Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!
  - HillaryBriss 11y ago
    Adding to that paradox, a major theme of the original post is that personal connections are really important to getting a startup job. So, startups are really looking hard outside the founders' circle of friends to find the most qualified applicants?
    - cscharenberg 11y ago
      This is something I commented on recently. Retraining programs and those already in the industry say social networking will get these people jobs. But they have the weakest networks in their new career. Yes, I could reach into 100 companies through my network and get an interview. A new person cannot. The assumption of using social networks is true only for those already established. Longer discussion of that as a comment on this blog post (http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiative.html http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiati...)
  - gizi 11y ago
    Virtual teams do not need to deal with immigration. So, what's next? Immigration offices on the backbones of the internet?
- wdewind 11y ago
  Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates.
  - jlees 11y ago
    Startups (depending on the size) are both wonderful and terrible places for a new bootcamp grad. There is a lot to learn, and learn quickly, which is something any bootcamp grad has had to master -- but there is often a dearth of mentoring and, as time goes on, patience for junior mistakes. Larger startups are much better than small ones, in my experience working both on the startup and bootcamp (instructor, mentor) sides of the table -- especially larger startups who have already hired from that bootcamp, or a similar one, before. Then you have the alumni-mentor train going, and life is great.