6 ms·

This is so true. It's really shocking how little effort and originality some/most people go to in getting the job they want. I have a similar story, although n

This is so true. It's really shocking how little effort and originality some/most people go to in getting the job they want. I have a similar story, although nowhere near as much effort. When I was 20 and hating life in school, I really wanted to work at Shopify. At the time, they were maybe 80 people. I've never made a resume and didn't feel like that would get me noticed. Sio I simply sent a cold email to Tobi, our CEO. It was basically "Hey, Tobi. I don't know anything, and I have no skills, but I love your company and I want to be involved. Give me a chance, I'll work for free." I got an email a week later from someone else on the team saying that I started the next week. When I asked why, I was told "this worked because you were naive enough to think that this would work". I've been here four years now, and it's still the most important email I've ever sent. Maybe luck, maybe naivety, but I'm thrilled it's worked out.

wdewind 11y ago
> When I asked why, I was told "this worked because you were naive enough to think that this would work". I've been here four years now, and it's still the most important email I've ever sent. Maybe luck, maybe naivety, but I'm thrilled it's worked out. When I was half way through college I decided I no longer wanted to be in school. I emailed a bunch of startups saying essentially "Your company sounds cool. I'll come work for you for the summer for free as long as we set up some kind of goal system where I can get a job offer at the end of the summer." I ended up getting two offers from that and never looked back. I didn't end up lasting 4 years there like you, but I am definitely glad I did it. Ironically enough, now that I'm somewhat into my career I can't see myself doing something like that again, which is too bad. I've picked up some risk aversion along the way :(
- dasil003 11y ago
  I think it works a lot better when you're 20 because people hire you based on potential. But when you're 30 hiring managers want to see skills. I suppose it could still work if you're changing careers, but you would need to demonstrate an even higher level of hunger and dedication.
  - mathattack 11y ago
    Very good point. You can only get hired for potential early in your career. This is one reason it's so hard to switch careers later on. Going back to school is the only other way to get a "reset".
  - wdewind 11y ago
    I don't know if that's true. This strategy certainly isn't going to land you a job at Google/FB/etc. but I'd be happy to chat with someone in their 30s who'd just gone through a bootcamp kind of thing and was offering a similar deal as someone who is currently hiring at a startup and we had a position for a junior/recent college grad. To me the biggest snafu is that it's a lot easier to do the whole "I'll work for free" thing when you're 20 and have no responsibilities. I'll also add, though, that there was a huge faith component in myself and in the startup industry that "things would just work out," and I was also miserable in school at the time, so alternatives were bleak. Having worked in the industry I've now been given a dose of reality, but having that kind of dumb faith allowed me to grow very quickly (though painfully, too), and I'm wondering how much that learned risk aversion is hurting my personal growth. That's my big takeaway from this, at least.
    - cscharenberg 11y ago
      At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unless you know someone on the inside of a company who can pull strings, you'll never get asked in for an interview. I'm watching my wife - a lawyer with math degree and programming experience - struggle to even get responses for junior QA positions. I think the job market will have to get much tighter before companies start hiring people retraining into software. Hiring processes are optimized for new college grads and people with industry experience. Retraining programs are going to fall on their faces if we can't reform HR to hire smart, motivated people that lack a laundry list of qualifications.
      - waterlesscloud 11y ago
        Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!
zuck9 11y ago
What position did you get? Are you at the same till now? EDIT: Your website, http://blairbeckwith.com/ http://blairbeckwith.com/ says "You have reached a domain that is pending ICANN verification."
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- blairbeckwith 11y ago
  Yeah, had some issue with the domain this AM – fixed now. I started as an intern on the App Store team; that team was four people at the time. Through a series of internal moves, the team eventually dropped down to just me about six months after I joined. I'm still with the same team today four years later; I lead the Developer Relations team and manage a team of five within a larger team that includes API Support and Merchant App Experience.
vinceguidry 11y ago
Naiveté is a useful quality in a candidate for the right company. It signals the potential for loyalty. Once you've had your idealism broken by corporate bullshit, there's no easy way to get it back.
- blairbeckwith 11y ago
  I think this is definitely true. Initially I felt like my loyalty was a result of having no other options, but it's proven untrue. I've had offers from all over the place since I've grown within Shopify, and I have no desire to leave this place. It's been fulfilling, challenging, and it will always be the place that took a chance on me when there were very few logical reasons to do so.
  - LunaSea 11y ago
    That's awesome, but please be careful. I was in the same situation as you but I was 19, hired as the first engineer (second employee) in a company of 5 people and I quit after almost 3 years. Even though it's still fresh, when I look back, I really think I should've quit earlier. When I joined I wanted to reward the company by showing that I was a hard worker but this resulted in just increasing the expectations without any return. Loyalty and overtime was almost expected of me after a while without any return besides the usual, low startup salary. I hope it's different for you than it was for me. Just remember that it should be a two-way street and your loyalty should be rewarded.
    - amyjess 11y ago
      I was in a similar situation. I was suffering from long-term unemployment after a layoff, and my experience was so specialized that no company really wanted me (and if a company didn't want experience, why not just hire someone fresh out of college?). I wound up somehow managing to land a job at a year-old startup that was still in early stages. I was making barely more than what I made at my last job in pure cash ($45k vs. $42k), when I'd been underpaid at my last job, and I received no insurance whatsoever. Still, I was grateful because I needed a job: the long-term unemployment had destroyed my mental health, plunged me five figures in debt, left me barely able to afford to live, and I was about out of extended unemployment (I found out I'd exhausted it the day after I accepted the offer -- and I got this job in early 2012 when extended unemployment was still a thing). It was this job or suicide, basically. When I joined, I was one of the only employees who wasn't Director-level or higher. I stayed way longer than I should. Ended up working there almost 3 years. The company was about to kick off the pilot program for their first big product when I left (we had another product before that, but it wasn't suitable for mass production and was discontinued long before the replacement was ready). The owner/CEO was insistent on keeping control of the company, so he never sought VC funding. Instead, we went through an endless cycle of constantly demoing our product to small-time investors. It was a constant scramble of getting things ready for the next demo. The company stayed small, raises were almost nonexistent (I somehow made it to $47k about a year in after I was rewarded for a huge flash of inspiration where I designed and wrote the product's infrastructure in like two days, but that was it, and I never got another), we never got insurance, and after a certain point we began hiring all new people as contractors to skirt under the federal 15-employee limit (which affects mandatory insurance and EEO matters). Management was terrible. My boss had no management experience and simply didn't know how to manage anything multiple people worked on. He was a brilliant engineer himself, and everything he wrote solo was a well-designed work of art, but he had no clue how to manage other people. Code breakage issues were constant. The co-head developer was utterly terrible at both design and coding, and my boss (the official head of development -- though he treated the co-head as an equal) insisted he could do no wrong and got irrationally angry whenever his friend's design or coding ability was questioned. My and a co-worker's complaints went unanswered, and said co-worker eventually snapped and dropped his notice on our boss' desk without anything lined up when he realized the problems would never be resolved. Another co-worker left for similar reasons. Neither were replaced. Also, my boss couldn't handle stress, and he'd take out his stress by screaming at his subordinates and treating us like incompetent children. Oh, and during my employment there, I began my gender transition. While my co-workers and my boss were totally accepting, our landlord wasn't, and they began illegally discriminating against me. My company just rolled over for them and refused to lift a finger to help me. That was when I really started to sour on the company, but it took eight months for me to actually bring myself to leave. I wound up fighting the landlord myself and filed a discrimination complaint with the city. Everyone with the city I dealt with was nothing short of excellent to me, much better than my employer. At one informal mediation session, I brought in the owner/CEO, and in his bumbling ignorance, he almost sabotaged my case. Finally, the landlord backed off, and I won, but I will never forget how poorly I was treated by my own employer. What's funny is that I was told by the city that if my employer had been over the 15-employee threshold, I could've filed both a municipal discrimination complaint and a federal EEO violation against them for rolling over for the landlord. Still, I stuck with the company for a few reasons. One, I still felt like I owed them something after how they rescued me from long-term unemployment. Two, their treatment of me shattered my self-confidence, and now I was afraid to put myself out there (doubly so since I'd never gone job hunting as a woman before). Three, as bad as this place was, it was the devil I knew; my next employer could easily be worse. Four, my immediate co-workers were wonderful people, and I didn't want to leave them behind (when I finally left, I friended some of them on Facebook, and we still keep in touch). The final straw was when my boss spent several minutes shouting at me for something that was his fault and then spent the next week screwing with my desk arrangements before finally putting me on a PIP. I started searching for new jobs that day. Soon, one of the jobs I applied to that day got back to me with a programming test, then a phone interview, then a real interview. Within a month, I received a formal offer from them, and I put my notice in the day before the PIP was to expire. I like my new employer much better. I was right to apply for this job, and I'm never working for a startup again. Getting out felt like leaving an abusive relationship. I've talked to spousal abuse survivors, and their stories about how their exes treated them and how difficult it was to get out remind me of what I went through with that company.
zerr 11y ago
Do you feel underpaid?
- blairbeckwith 11y ago
  I have been, and continue to be, compensated more than fairly for my position. I don't think not going to school or anything has had any impact on my earning potential so far.
mathattack 11y ago
Great story! Did they start you for free? Or how long did it take to get paid?
- blairbeckwith 11y ago
  They, like most good companies, ended up not letting me work for free. I was paid well (for someone with, as I said, no experience and no concrete skills) right off the bat.
  - mathattack 11y ago
    Nice! Some industries (Advertising, PR, Government...) do make people work w/out pay. I like that it worked out so well for you.
commenter1239 11y ago
are you still working for free?
evook 11y ago
When I was young, I cloned services and wrote a letter to the company offering to buy a exclusive one year license or it would get released as open source in addition with a demo. That was giving me some job chances. Now it's all about who you know, and what condition a potential employer is offering. No car, home office, solo office, dynamic hours and I'll walk out of an interview when the pay isn't obscenely high. One time everything was right, but I complained to the managing director that the HR was giving me upfront bullshit during an interview, being not sure if I wanted to work In an environment where hiring is practiced that badly. This resulted in my first upper management position and allowing me to hire the employees of my department without HR in charge. Best decision ever, my best three engineers didn't even study. The hiring system is broken. In the technical sector even more than anywhere else, because it just doesn't make a difference for your skills if you have studied ivy league or learned everything necessary at home for yourself.
- paulryanrogers 11y ago
  Are you saying you basically extorted these companies for a job based on the threat of releasing open source software?
  - evook 11y ago
    I wouldn't say that. I was after the money back then, but some companies actually liked that attitude of mine. Also lacking a product cycle those threads expired by themselves.
- leojg 11y ago
  You, sir, are an evil but brilliant mind. Watch out if you try to use that tactic with some mafia or terrorist group.
Kluny 11y ago
Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I've sent naive emails like that with no response, or a polite "that's nice, kid, but come back in 4 years with your degree." I've also tried putting exceptional effort into a job application, like by using their API or writing a promotional piece about them on my blog that showcases their company while demonstrating my deep understanding and interest in what they do. Maybe I was just doing it wrong, but my reward for such efforts was nothing but silence. Meanwhile, sending out form resumes seems to eventually and consistently work, with way less effort.
Kalium 11y ago
> This is so true. It's really shocking how little effort and originality some/most people go to in getting the job they want. I used to believe that putting in effort and showing originality would help me get the job I wanted. Over time, I came to understand that was a huge drain on my time, energy, and emotional well-being for the sake of people who basically never noticed. For instance, at my current employer we use JobScore. In theory, an applicant can submit a cover letter and a portfolio and so on. People who look at engineering applicants go straight for the resume and ignore details like cover letter.
- johns 11y ago
  That's too bad. A cover letter is 100x more valuable than a resume.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    Could you explain why you say that?
    - kbeckmann 11y ago
      A good cover letter tells more about the person and not just the cold facts. What motivates the person, details about side projects etc.
      - Kalium 11y ago
        Those are valuable details, but I think that it makes the application largely about the applicant's ability to author prose. This is appropriate for a copywriter, but I find it of less certain value for a software engineer.
        dangerlibrary 11y ago
        The best argument for a cover letter over a resume is that relatively few people tailor their resume to each application. As a result, a resume is the job-application equivalent of a mass-mailer. Cover letters (when written correctly and not templated) convey a certain amount of interest in THIS job, and show that the candidate is serious about the position.
awalGarg 11y ago
I feel pretty fair in blaming the current "standard" way of submitting job applications at most places. For pretty much every posting I see, I'd be taken to some ugly and bloated page asking me to upload a PDF/DOC which is then parsed out to auto fill some form fields and those form fields mostly don't let me actually communicate what I want to. I have been looking for a job since the past couple of months, and my experience has basically been just that. Simple job listings with an email to send your details to haven't been a common sight to me, specially at established places[1]. If anyone knows of some service where I can find them, I'd be glad to hear. [1]: I know the story is about startups, but I presume parent is talking about jobs in general? [edit] markdown issue

wdewind 11y ago

> When I asked why, I was told "this worked because you were naive enough to think that this would work". I've been here four years now, and it's still the most important email I've ever sent. Maybe luck, maybe naivety, but I'm thrilled it's worked out. When I was half way through college I decided I no longer wanted to be in school. I emailed a bunch of startups saying essentially "Your company sounds cool. I'll come work for you for the summer for free as long as we set up some kind of goal system where I can get a job offer at the end of the summer." I ended up getting two offers from that and never looked back. I didn't end up lasting 4 years there like you, but I am definitely glad I did it. Ironically enough, now that I'm somewhat into my career I can't see myself doing something like that again, which is too bad. I've picked up some risk aversion along the way :(

dasil003 11y ago
I think it works a lot better when you're 20 because people hire you based on potential. But when you're 30 hiring managers want to see skills. I suppose it could still work if you're changing careers, but you would need to demonstrate an even higher level of hunger and dedication.
- mathattack 11y ago
  Very good point. You can only get hired for potential early in your career. This is one reason it's so hard to switch careers later on. Going back to school is the only other way to get a "reset".
- wdewind 11y ago
  I don't know if that's true. This strategy certainly isn't going to land you a job at Google/FB/etc. but I'd be happy to chat with someone in their 30s who'd just gone through a bootcamp kind of thing and was offering a similar deal as someone who is currently hiring at a startup and we had a position for a junior/recent college grad. To me the biggest snafu is that it's a lot easier to do the whole "I'll work for free" thing when you're 20 and have no responsibilities. I'll also add, though, that there was a huge faith component in myself and in the startup industry that "things would just work out," and I was also miserable in school at the time, so alternatives were bleak. Having worked in the industry I've now been given a dose of reality, but having that kind of dumb faith allowed me to grow very quickly (though painfully, too), and I'm wondering how much that learned risk aversion is hurting my personal growth. That's my big takeaway from this, at least.
  - cscharenberg 11y ago
    At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unless you know someone on the inside of a company who can pull strings, you'll never get asked in for an interview. I'm watching my wife - a lawyer with math degree and programming experience - struggle to even get responses for junior QA positions. I think the job market will have to get much tighter before companies start hiring people retraining into software. Hiring processes are optimized for new college grads and people with industry experience. Retraining programs are going to fall on their faces if we can't reform HR to hire smart, motivated people that lack a laundry list of qualifications.
    - waterlesscloud 11y ago
      Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!

zuck9 11y ago

What position did you get? Are you at the same till now? EDIT: Your website, http://blairbeckwith.com/ http://blairbeckwith.com/ says "You have reached a domain that is pending ICANN verification."

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
blairbeckwith 11y ago
Yeah, had some issue with the domain this AM – fixed now. I started as an intern on the App Store team; that team was four people at the time. Through a series of internal moves, the team eventually dropped down to just me about six months after I joined. I'm still with the same team today four years later; I lead the Developer Relations team and manage a team of five within a larger team that includes API Support and Merchant App Experience.

vinceguidry 11y ago

Naiveté is a useful quality in a candidate for the right company. It signals the potential for loyalty. Once you've had your idealism broken by corporate bullshit, there's no easy way to get it back.

blairbeckwith 11y ago
I think this is definitely true. Initially I felt like my loyalty was a result of having no other options, but it's proven untrue. I've had offers from all over the place since I've grown within Shopify, and I have no desire to leave this place. It's been fulfilling, challenging, and it will always be the place that took a chance on me when there were very few logical reasons to do so.
- LunaSea 11y ago
  That's awesome, but please be careful. I was in the same situation as you but I was 19, hired as the first engineer (second employee) in a company of 5 people and I quit after almost 3 years. Even though it's still fresh, when I look back, I really think I should've quit earlier. When I joined I wanted to reward the company by showing that I was a hard worker but this resulted in just increasing the expectations without any return. Loyalty and overtime was almost expected of me after a while without any return besides the usual, low startup salary. I hope it's different for you than it was for me. Just remember that it should be a two-way street and your loyalty should be rewarded.
  - amyjess 11y ago
    I was in a similar situation. I was suffering from long-term unemployment after a layoff, and my experience was so specialized that no company really wanted me (and if a company didn't want experience, why not just hire someone fresh out of college?). I wound up somehow managing to land a job at a year-old startup that was still in early stages. I was making barely more than what I made at my last job in pure cash ($45k vs. $42k), when I'd been underpaid at my last job, and I received no insurance whatsoever. Still, I was grateful because I needed a job: the long-term unemployment had destroyed my mental health, plunged me five figures in debt, left me barely able to afford to live, and I was about out of extended unemployment (I found out I'd exhausted it the day after I accepted the offer -- and I got this job in early 2012 when extended unemployment was still a thing). It was this job or suicide, basically. When I joined, I was one of the only employees who wasn't Director-level or higher. I stayed way longer than I should. Ended up working there almost 3 years. The company was about to kick off the pilot program for their first big product when I left (we had another product before that, but it wasn't suitable for mass production and was discontinued long before the replacement was ready). The owner/CEO was insistent on keeping control of the company, so he never sought VC funding. Instead, we went through an endless cycle of constantly demoing our product to small-time investors. It was a constant scramble of getting things ready for the next demo. The company stayed small, raises were almost nonexistent (I somehow made it to $47k about a year in after I was rewarded for a huge flash of inspiration where I designed and wrote the product's infrastructure in like two days, but that was it, and I never got another), we never got insurance, and after a certain point we began hiring all new people as contractors to skirt under the federal 15-employee limit (which affects mandatory insurance and EEO matters). Management was terrible. My boss had no management experience and simply didn't know how to manage anything multiple people worked on. He was a brilliant engineer himself, and everything he wrote solo was a well-designed work of art, but he had no clue how to manage other people. Code breakage issues were constant. The co-head developer was utterly terrible at both design and coding, and my boss (the official head of development -- though he treated the co-head as an equal) insisted he could do no wrong and got irrationally angry whenever his friend's design or coding ability was questioned. My and a co-worker's complaints went unanswered, and said co-worker eventually snapped and dropped his notice on our boss' desk without anything lined up when he realized the problems would never be resolved. Another co-worker left for similar reasons. Neither were replaced. Also, my boss couldn't handle stress, and he'd take out his stress by screaming at his subordinates and treating us like incompetent children. Oh, and during my employment there, I began my gender transition. While my co-workers and my boss were totally accepting, our landlord wasn't, and they began illegally discriminating against me. My company just rolled over for them and refused to lift a finger to help me. That was when I really started to sour on the company, but it took eight months for me to actually bring myself to leave. I wound up fighting the landlord myself and filed a discrimination complaint with the city. Everyone with the city I dealt with was nothing short of excellent to me, much better than my employer. At one informal mediation session, I brought in the owner/CEO, and in his bumbling ignorance, he almost sabotaged my case. Finally, the landlord backed off, and I won, but I will never forget how poorly I was treated by my own employer. What's funny is that I was told by the city that if my employer had been over the 15-employee threshold, I could've filed both a municipal discrimination complaint and a federal EEO violation against them for rolling over for the landlord. Still, I stuck with the company for a few reasons. One, I still felt like I owed them something after how they rescued me from long-term unemployment. Two, their treatment of me shattered my self-confidence, and now I was afraid to put myself out there (doubly so since I'd never gone job hunting as a woman before). Three, as bad as this place was, it was the devil I knew; my next employer could easily be worse. Four, my immediate co-workers were wonderful people, and I didn't want to leave them behind (when I finally left, I friended some of them on Facebook, and we still keep in touch). The final straw was when my boss spent several minutes shouting at me for something that was his fault and then spent the next week screwing with my desk arrangements before finally putting me on a PIP. I started searching for new jobs that day. Soon, one of the jobs I applied to that day got back to me with a programming test, then a phone interview, then a real interview. Within a month, I received a formal offer from them, and I put my notice in the day before the PIP was to expire. I like my new employer much better. I was right to apply for this job, and I'm never working for a startup again. Getting out felt like leaving an abusive relationship. I've talked to spousal abuse survivors, and their stories about how their exes treated them and how difficult it was to get out remind me of what I went through with that company.

zerr 11y ago

Do you feel underpaid?

blairbeckwith 11y ago
I have been, and continue to be, compensated more than fairly for my position. I don't think not going to school or anything has had any impact on my earning potential so far.

mathattack 11y ago

Great story! Did they start you for free? Or how long did it take to get paid?

blairbeckwith 11y ago
They, like most good companies, ended up not letting me work for free. I was paid well (for someone with, as I said, no experience and no concrete skills) right off the bat.
- mathattack 11y ago
  Nice! Some industries (Advertising, PR, Government...) do make people work w/out pay. I like that it worked out so well for you.

commenter1239 11y ago

are you still working for free?

evook 11y ago

When I was young, I cloned services and wrote a letter to the company offering to buy a exclusive one year license or it would get released as open source in addition with a demo. That was giving me some job chances. Now it's all about who you know, and what condition a potential employer is offering. No car, home office, solo office, dynamic hours and I'll walk out of an interview when the pay isn't obscenely high. One time everything was right, but I complained to the managing director that the HR was giving me upfront bullshit during an interview, being not sure if I wanted to work In an environment where hiring is practiced that badly. This resulted in my first upper management position and allowing me to hire the employees of my department without HR in charge. Best decision ever, my best three engineers didn't even study. The hiring system is broken. In the technical sector even more than anywhere else, because it just doesn't make a difference for your skills if you have studied ivy league or learned everything necessary at home for yourself.

paulryanrogers 11y ago
Are you saying you basically extorted these companies for a job based on the threat of releasing open source software?
- evook 11y ago
  I wouldn't say that. I was after the money back then, but some companies actually liked that attitude of mine. Also lacking a product cycle those threads expired by themselves.
leojg 11y ago
You, sir, are an evil but brilliant mind. Watch out if you try to use that tactic with some mafia or terrorist group.

Kluny 11y ago

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I've sent naive emails like that with no response, or a polite "that's nice, kid, but come back in 4 years with your degree." I've also tried putting exceptional effort into a job application, like by using their API or writing a promotional piece about them on my blog that showcases their company while demonstrating my deep understanding and interest in what they do. Maybe I was just doing it wrong, but my reward for such efforts was nothing but silence. Meanwhile, sending out form resumes seems to eventually and consistently work, with way less effort.

Kalium 11y ago

> This is so true. It's really shocking how little effort and originality some/most people go to in getting the job they want. I used to believe that putting in effort and showing originality would help me get the job I wanted. Over time, I came to understand that was a huge drain on my time, energy, and emotional well-being for the sake of people who basically never noticed. For instance, at my current employer we use JobScore. In theory, an applicant can submit a cover letter and a portfolio and so on. People who look at engineering applicants go straight for the resume and ignore details like cover letter.

johns 11y ago
That's too bad. A cover letter is 100x more valuable than a resume.
- Kalium 11y ago
  Could you explain why you say that?
  - kbeckmann 11y ago
    A good cover letter tells more about the person and not just the cold facts. What motivates the person, details about side projects etc.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      Those are valuable details, but I think that it makes the application largely about the applicant's ability to author prose. This is appropriate for a copywriter, but I find it of less certain value for a software engineer.
      - dangerlibrary 11y ago
        The best argument for a cover letter over a resume is that relatively few people tailor their resume to each application. As a result, a resume is the job-application equivalent of a mass-mailer. Cover letters (when written correctly and not templated) convey a certain amount of interest in THIS job, and show that the candidate is serious about the position.

awalGarg 11y ago

I feel pretty fair in blaming the current "standard" way of submitting job applications at most places. For pretty much every posting I see, I'd be taken to some ugly and bloated page asking me to upload a PDF/DOC which is then parsed out to auto fill some form fields and those form fields mostly don't let me actually communicate what I want to. I have been looking for a job since the past couple of months, and my experience has basically been just that. Simple job listings with an email to send your details to haven't been a common sight to me, specially at established places[1]. If anyone knows of some service where I can find them, I'd be glad to hear. [1]: I know the story is about startups, but I presume parent is talking about jobs in general? [edit] markdown issue