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What do you want thone other companies to get behind? They don't manufacture phones like Apple does, right...? Note that this letter says: "When the FBI has re

What do you want thone other companies to get behind? They don't manufacture phones like Apple does, right...? Note that this letter says: "When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it." Seels like that detail is getting very little attention in this announcement. Really? If the FYI requests any data, they hand it over...?

creshal 11y ago
Goole makes Android; Amazon makes FireOS. No idea what't the deal with Facebook is. > Really? If the FYI requests any data, they hand it over...? They have to, there's no legal wiggle room here. Creating backdoors OTOH seems to be sufficiently legally questionable that Apple can risk noncompliance. (Of course, Apple could not accumulate all that data in the first place, but that would be silly, obviously. Now please sync your wifi passwords to iCloud.)
dr_zoidberg 11y ago
Would you complain about Apple handing in information to solve the murder of a loved one? Why is it always the "bad government" argument? It's not that it doesn't happen, but usually those requests are aimed towards more "mundane" cases. For example, I have friends who work in law (though not in the US), and the number 1 data request -which is revised by a judge, and only then given by companies- are call logs from telephones (just from/to, date, time, duration, nothing fancy). And this are extremely helpful and information rich, if you know how to use them.
- fixermark 11y ago
  Utilitarian philosophy argument. The benefit gained by solving one murdered loved-one case is badly offset by the loss accrued to everyone by no longer having the security protections they expected. This specific case, in fact, is pretty close to "murder of a loved one;" the phone's owner killed people, and the FBI wants to find out if they were part of a bigger plot.
- tossaway1 11y ago
  I'm all for supporting law enforcement efforts, but the wording seemed to imply that Apple hands over any requested info to the FBI, which seems excessive. But I was mainly pointing out that quote because it wasn't clear what lesson the parent commenter wanted Google, Facebook, and Amazon to be learning from Apple. I would have guessed it'd have something to do with protection of user data, but the letter says they turn over any user data they have!
  - dr_zoidberg 11y ago
    They probably refer that they have handed all the information they could in this specific case. There surely was some kind of authorization (from a judge perhaps -- US law is almost unknown to me) too. As for the comment of Google, Facebook, etc, learning, I agree with you.
- c22 11y ago
  Can the information bring my loved one back to life? Or will it just result in more terrible things happening to someone else's loved one?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
cp9 11y ago
... you can't just ignore a subpoena if you wish to do business in the US. providing a backdoor is different

creshal 11y ago

Goole makes Android; Amazon makes FireOS. No idea what't the deal with Facebook is. > Really? If the FYI requests any data, they hand it over...? They have to, there's no legal wiggle room here. Creating backdoors OTOH seems to be sufficiently legally questionable that Apple can risk noncompliance. (Of course, Apple could not accumulate all that data in the first place, but that would be silly, obviously. Now please sync your wifi passwords to iCloud.)

dr_zoidberg 11y ago

Would you complain about Apple handing in information to solve the murder of a loved one? Why is it always the "bad government" argument? It's not that it doesn't happen, but usually those requests are aimed towards more "mundane" cases. For example, I have friends who work in law (though not in the US), and the number 1 data request -which is revised by a judge, and only then given by companies- are call logs from telephones (just from/to, date, time, duration, nothing fancy). And this are extremely helpful and information rich, if you know how to use them.

fixermark 11y ago
Utilitarian philosophy argument. The benefit gained by solving one murdered loved-one case is badly offset by the loss accrued to everyone by no longer having the security protections they expected. This specific case, in fact, is pretty close to "murder of a loved one;" the phone's owner killed people, and the FBI wants to find out if they were part of a bigger plot.
tossaway1 11y ago
I'm all for supporting law enforcement efforts, but the wording seemed to imply that Apple hands over any requested info to the FBI, which seems excessive. But I was mainly pointing out that quote because it wasn't clear what lesson the parent commenter wanted Google, Facebook, and Amazon to be learning from Apple. I would have guessed it'd have something to do with protection of user data, but the letter says they turn over any user data they have!
- dr_zoidberg 11y ago
  They probably refer that they have handed all the information they could in this specific case. There surely was some kind of authorization (from a judge perhaps -- US law is almost unknown to me) too. As for the comment of Google, Facebook, etc, learning, I agree with you.
c22 11y ago
Can the information bring my loved one back to life? Or will it just result in more terrible things happening to someone else's loved one?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

cp9 11y ago

... you can't just ignore a subpoena if you wish to do business in the US. providing a backdoor is different