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This whole affair is the symptom of a deeper tragedy, that of the French "orthographe" (meaning "proper spelling"). Orthographe is a rather recent notion, that
by bambax 11y ago
This whole affair is the symptom of a deeper tragedy, that of the French "orthographe" (meaning "proper spelling").
Orthographe is a rather recent notion, that appeared well after the creation of the Académie française (1635), I would say somewhere in the middle of the 18th century, and then became the universal enforceable "norm" that it is today, in the middle of the following century (19th).
Before that, you could spell French any which way you liked; most authors spelled the same word differently, not just in different works, but in the same page, and not depending on context either.
And it wasn't a problem, because it can be argued that the best works of French literature were written at a time when orthographe didn't exist.
There were "grammarians" that insisted that there should be some rules and that they should be followed, but they were objects of universal scorn and mockery.
Then, I'm not sure exactly how, grammarians won, and now we have orthographe.
Orthographe is a tragedy for two reasons:
- it's mainly, or uniquely, a social marker
- it's so complex and so arbitrary, it takes between 5 and 10 years of arduous study to learn.
And after people learn it, they become attached to it, it becomes part of their identity, and it continues to be enforced and imposed on children as a matter of course, without any objection from anybody.
For the record, I'm a very good (or by most metrics, excellent) French speller, but I'm also a parent and am heartbroken to see my kids spend the best part of their young lives learning this thing that has absolutely no extrinsic or intrinsic value whatsoever. They could learn music, or drawing, or cooking, or woodworking, or go play outdoors, but there's no time, because orthographe is so damn hard it takes all of the time in school, and more time at home. Hard and useless.
The worst part is it's not a fight you can fight on your own -- decide that your kids won't learn orthographe after all -- because that would cause them a huge disservice: the social marker part means that those who can't spell are excluded from normal society and have a very hard time finding jobs (any job).
Many social problems in French society -- including, I really think so, recent outbursts of "terrorism" -- have at least some roots in the actual terror and tragedy of orthographe. If you can't learn orthographe you can't be a member of French society, and in order to learn orthographe you have to already be a member of said society.
Do I like the current reform? No, I think it's stupid and counter-productive, because it adds an alternative spelling to 2000 or so words; the alternative spelling may be simpler, but the addition raises complexity instead of lowering it. -- The point is to get rid of orthographe, not double it.
- pif 11y agoIf I understand correctly, you are against having one rule for writing French and you'd prefer some anarchy in spelling. Personally, I don't agree with you: serious documents need to be written in a language which provides an official grammar. > Orthographe is a tragedy for two reasons: The current ortographe is a tragedy, but they could have chosen a simpler and more logical one. In particular, they could have avoided keeping in written all those details that have been lost in speaking (ex: "(je) faisais", "(il) faisait", "(ils) faisaient"): why not just writing the same if you pronounce the same? OTOH, I fully agree with you that the result of adding a tolerated alternative, instead of forcing a change, doesn't even look like a simplification.
- bambax 11y agoI'm not against having a rule; I think the current set of "rules" (really, a collection of historical accidents that have no consistency and no fundamental "meaning") are not worth the time needed to learn them. I wish orthographe never happened. I don't have a solution for where we are now.
- Mikushi 11y agoWhat are you on about... >For the record, I'm a very good (or by most metrics, excellent) French speller, but I'm also a parent and am heartbroken to see my kids spend the best part of their young lives learning this thing that has absolutely no extrinsic or intrinsic value whatsoever How can you say this seriously. Not only orthographe is extremely important to the health of the language itself but also to its health abroad. How can you teach the language to someone if while reading two texts you encounter about 10 different ways of spelling the same word. And contrary to you I speak as a fairly horrible French speller (mostly due to my own lack of attention in class and the fact that English is my first language for over a decade now). > Many social problems in French society -- including, I really think so, recent outbursts of "terrorism" -- have at least some roots in the actual terror and tragedy of orthographe. They have, and I really think so, roots in people like you pointing the fingers anywhere but where the problems are. Seriously, orthographe as a factor in terrorism, jesus fucking christ what the fuck.