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<rant> What does being 88 years old have to do with anything? The title could've been "White Mayor Gets City Debt-free..." or "Female Mayor Gets City Debt-fre

<rant> What does being 88 years old have to do with anything? The title could've been "White Mayor Gets City Debt-free..." or "Female Mayor Gets City Debt-free..." One thing that annoys me is that for anyone over 80 years old, the first (and often only) thing that people notice is their age. When I get that old, I want people to see me first and my age second, not the other way around. </rant>

sburgess 17y ago
Good point. I suppose I just find it encouraging. Point taken though.
- techiferous 17y ago
  Also, nothing personal meant by my comment.
  - sburgess 17y ago
    Oh I didn't take it personally at all. I honestly appreciated the reminder to check myself when I reference someone like this.
philk 17y ago
I for one find it encouraging when people that age are achieving something great by anyone's standards, not just the lax standards that society applies to the senescent. At the very least it makes old age less terrifying.
- ellyagg 17y ago
  Your comment just reinforces what he's saying. Substitute "people who are black" for "people that age". I remember when Morgan Freeman was on 60 Minutes. It was great: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n I'm never going to be black. But someday I hope to be 88, and it's going to be really damn annoying if everyone says "wow, that's pretty good...especially for an 88 year old!"
  - philk 17y ago
    Not really. Being black doesn't make you slower, less able or more susceptible to disease. Aging does. >> But someday I hope to be 88, and it's going to be really damn annoying if everyone says "wow, that's pretty good...especially for an 88 year old!" If you're 88[1], still accomplishing meaningful things and don't have cancer or dementia you're doing brilliantly and shouldn't care what people are saying about you. [1] Substitute future impressive age assuming life expectancy continues to increase.
    - ellyagg 17y ago
      Your argument sounds so temptingly plausible, doesn't it? Yet, women inarguably have biological limitations compared to men in some respects, but in those areas where they do, I've found that they still really hate it when you say, "you did a great job...for a girl". Besides, your claim that specially calling out black excellence is different because of their fundamental equivalence is specious. We know that blacks are underrepresented in many high status areas. Thus, we know that there are barriers of some sort or another blocking them from achievement. It's an incredibly weak argument to say that these barriers aren't worth acknowledging, but the barriers to equal average achievement for older people are. It's not really relevant whether you think old people are feeble on average. I, as everyone, wants to be judged on my own, as having the full potential of anyone else. When you say, man, you did an amazing job for an old person, you are suggesting that a younger person could do it better, or, at the least, I could have done even better when I was younger. But if some younger person could do it better, why aren't they? It's a little obnoxious. Celebrating someone for having to "overcome" being black or being old or being a woman lowers their status in each case. This is just a fact.
boucher 17y ago
Perhaps because, on average, people are dead before they turn 88? Or, because people retire at 65 (or 55 in Canada?)? Or, because she's been mayor for over 30 years, which isn't exactly something you can accomplish at a young age? Or because she's in incredibly good shape for a woman of her age? There exist inappropriate times to comment on someone's age, or to make decisions based on it. This wasn't one of them. The story was much more about her than the debt free nature of the city. I'd also mention that she does not in any way seem offended by such comments, she seems to enjoy playing it up and joking about it.
- techiferous 17y ago
  "I'd also mention that she does not in any way seem offended by such comments." Yeah, I wonder how I'll feel about this when I'm older. Maybe I won't mind. It just sounds weird to me when people mention the age of someone and it's not relevant to the story, kind of like when someone is telling you a story about someone and they mention that they are black and it's completely irrelevant.
  - ghshephard 17y ago
    I recall, at the ripe old age of 34, being put off by a new engineer who said "People of your generation look at technology different than us younger people, but it's cool that you are so familiar with the internet." Now, I recognize that 34 is _little_ out of place at some startups, but I hadn't realized I'd moved into a new generation. It didn't really bother me, so much as cause me to be aware that time is certainly passing by...
    - thwarted 17y ago
      So familiar with the Internet?! Kids today, with their Bings and Googles. We had to use Veronica and Archie, and we liked it! Back then, both our browsers and our hypertext transfer protocols were at version 0.9, if you can believe that!
    - gaius 17y ago
      LOL! These kids are great at friending each other on MySpace and watching videos on Youtube, but people our age built the Internet one metre of fibre at a time. We're the creators, they're just consumers.
cookiecaper 17y ago
I like to see articles that emphasize that smart people are old. Ageism is far too prevalent, imo; old people are worthwhile and should be revered, not mocked or denigrated. Oldness is experience, and oldness is an advantage in most cases.
- derefr 17y ago
  Experience is an advantage as long as it is not squandered by adopting extreme traditionalism. If you can keep learning when others have stopped, you can achieve anything.
- philk 17y ago
  Experience for youth is not a fair trade. Experience is usually domain specific and prone to being rendered worthless as times change. Additionally, experience can render you resistant to further learning. Youth brings energy and the ability to learn faster than others. Lets remember that the article emphasises the mayor's age precisely because 88 year olds achieving great things is so very rare. I hope that I'm wrong and you're right, but I'd rather have youth than experience any day of the week.
nathanieljones 17y ago
Our society has agreed that after 60 years or so, you have earned the right to put your feet up, move to Florida, and retire. I admire that she has an easy out and yet chooses to continue serving the city she loves, and with excellence to boot. Well done, ma'am, I would like to shake your hand.
jjs 17y ago
What does being 88 years old have to do with anything? It means she grew up during the worldwide Great Depression, but was still old enough to have known its stark contrast to the prosperity of the 1920s. This could have influenced her towards extreme frugality. She was also an adult before the worldwide adoption of Keynesian fiscal policy, so the idea of even temporarily running an unbalanced budget might be particularly odious to her.
neilc 17y ago
The mayor's age is relevant, because being a mayor at 88 is quite unusual. White mayors or female mayors are to be expected; an 88 year old mayor who has served for 31 years is simply a remarkable part of the story.
michaelcampbell 17y ago
> When I get that old, I want people to see me first and my age second, not the other way around. Good luck.

sburgess 17y ago

Good point. I suppose I just find it encouraging. Point taken though.

techiferous 17y ago
Also, nothing personal meant by my comment.
- sburgess 17y ago
  Oh I didn't take it personally at all. I honestly appreciated the reminder to check myself when I reference someone like this.

philk 17y ago

I for one find it encouraging when people that age are achieving something great by anyone's standards, not just the lax standards that society applies to the senescent. At the very least it makes old age less terrifying.

ellyagg 17y ago
Your comment just reinforces what he's saying. Substitute "people who are black" for "people that age". I remember when Morgan Freeman was on 60 Minutes. It was great: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n I'm never going to be black. But someday I hope to be 88, and it's going to be really damn annoying if everyone says "wow, that's pretty good...especially for an 88 year old!"
- philk 17y ago
  Not really. Being black doesn't make you slower, less able or more susceptible to disease. Aging does. >> But someday I hope to be 88, and it's going to be really damn annoying if everyone says "wow, that's pretty good...especially for an 88 year old!" If you're 88[1], still accomplishing meaningful things and don't have cancer or dementia you're doing brilliantly and shouldn't care what people are saying about you. [1] Substitute future impressive age assuming life expectancy continues to increase.
  - ellyagg 17y ago
    Your argument sounds so temptingly plausible, doesn't it? Yet, women inarguably have biological limitations compared to men in some respects, but in those areas where they do, I've found that they still really hate it when you say, "you did a great job...for a girl". Besides, your claim that specially calling out black excellence is different because of their fundamental equivalence is specious. We know that blacks are underrepresented in many high status areas. Thus, we know that there are barriers of some sort or another blocking them from achievement. It's an incredibly weak argument to say that these barriers aren't worth acknowledging, but the barriers to equal average achievement for older people are. It's not really relevant whether you think old people are feeble on average. I, as everyone, wants to be judged on my own, as having the full potential of anyone else. When you say, man, you did an amazing job for an old person, you are suggesting that a younger person could do it better, or, at the least, I could have done even better when I was younger. But if some younger person could do it better, why aren't they? It's a little obnoxious. Celebrating someone for having to "overcome" being black or being old or being a woman lowers their status in each case. This is just a fact.

boucher 17y ago

Perhaps because, on average, people are dead before they turn 88? Or, because people retire at 65 (or 55 in Canada?)? Or, because she's been mayor for over 30 years, which isn't exactly something you can accomplish at a young age? Or because she's in incredibly good shape for a woman of her age? There exist inappropriate times to comment on someone's age, or to make decisions based on it. This wasn't one of them. The story was much more about her than the debt free nature of the city. I'd also mention that she does not in any way seem offended by such comments, she seems to enjoy playing it up and joking about it.

techiferous 17y ago
"I'd also mention that she does not in any way seem offended by such comments." Yeah, I wonder how I'll feel about this when I'm older. Maybe I won't mind. It just sounds weird to me when people mention the age of someone and it's not relevant to the story, kind of like when someone is telling you a story about someone and they mention that they are black and it's completely irrelevant.
- ghshephard 17y ago
  I recall, at the ripe old age of 34, being put off by a new engineer who said "People of your generation look at technology different than us younger people, but it's cool that you are so familiar with the internet." Now, I recognize that 34 is _little_ out of place at some startups, but I hadn't realized I'd moved into a new generation. It didn't really bother me, so much as cause me to be aware that time is certainly passing by...
  - thwarted 17y ago
    So familiar with the Internet?! Kids today, with their Bings and Googles. We had to use Veronica and Archie, and we liked it! Back then, both our browsers and our hypertext transfer protocols were at version 0.9, if you can believe that!
  - gaius 17y ago
    LOL! These kids are great at friending each other on MySpace and watching videos on Youtube, but people our age built the Internet one metre of fibre at a time. We're the creators, they're just consumers.

cookiecaper 17y ago

I like to see articles that emphasize that smart people are old. Ageism is far too prevalent, imo; old people are worthwhile and should be revered, not mocked or denigrated. Oldness is experience, and oldness is an advantage in most cases.

derefr 17y ago
Experience is an advantage as long as it is not squandered by adopting extreme traditionalism. If you can keep learning when others have stopped, you can achieve anything.
philk 17y ago
Experience for youth is not a fair trade. Experience is usually domain specific and prone to being rendered worthless as times change. Additionally, experience can render you resistant to further learning. Youth brings energy and the ability to learn faster than others. Lets remember that the article emphasises the mayor's age precisely because 88 year olds achieving great things is so very rare. I hope that I'm wrong and you're right, but I'd rather have youth than experience any day of the week.

nathanieljones 17y ago

Our society has agreed that after 60 years or so, you have earned the right to put your feet up, move to Florida, and retire. I admire that she has an easy out and yet chooses to continue serving the city she loves, and with excellence to boot. Well done, ma'am, I would like to shake your hand.

jjs 17y ago

What does being 88 years old have to do with anything? It means she grew up during the worldwide Great Depression, but was still old enough to have known its stark contrast to the prosperity of the 1920s. This could have influenced her towards extreme frugality. She was also an adult before the worldwide adoption of Keynesian fiscal policy, so the idea of even temporarily running an unbalanced budget might be particularly odious to her.

neilc 17y ago

The mayor's age is relevant, because being a mayor at 88 is quite unusual. White mayors or female mayors are to be expected; an 88 year old mayor who has served for 31 years is simply a remarkable part of the story.

michaelcampbell 17y ago

> When I get that old, I want people to see me first and my age second, not the other way around. Good luck.