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The budget and political will aren't there to do much more than they already do. A detention here and there, kid's back in class the next day. Parents of bullie

by ashark 11y ago

The budget and political will aren't there to do much more than they already do. A detention here and there, kid's back in class the next day. Parents of bullies are usually uncooperative, to say the least. Combative and with shocking amounts of free time, more often. Academic stats (and therefore budget) suffer just as much for the school regardless of whether the reason two dozen kids did a step worse on the standardized test than they would have is because they spent three weeks each under suspension for bullying. There's no where else to send them, not in the volume they are present. No budget for it, no mandate. We're allergic to categorizing and separating (and hopefully rehabilitating! But... that costs money) kids on the scale that would be necessary. The teachers and administrators can at best treat the symptoms, not cure the disease. Of course they fail at this as well, sometimes, but there just isn't much they can do unless the bully's so violent that they can kick them out with little risk of losing a lawsuit afterward.

bediger4000 11y ago
Haven't you just confirmed that in your opinion, the problem is that the teachers and administration can't or won't do anything, so they're doing "bullying theater", and handing off the problem to all the pencil-necked bystanders, who really have no business intervening, and lots of motivation not to intervene? What a ludicrous situation. Personally, I don't even believe the "fear of lawsuits" thing. I was in middle school in the mid-70s, in Missouri. The crustier teachers still gave out "swats" as punishment. No fear of a lawsuit there. Bullying was more or less winked at, depending on who was getting bullied. You don't have to believe me, but I saw a PE "teacher" walk in on a football player banging a poor kid's head into the wall, repeatedly. The "teacher" checked to see who was getting beaten, then walked away quietly. Bullying exists to preserve the power structure that teachers and administrators are part of, which extends from outside the school in. "Bullying Theater" isn't going to stop it, or even mitigate the problem, it's only going to make things worse, because after the theater takes place, then teachers and admins can legally wash their hands of it all, and blame the bystanders, as well as the victims.
- ashark 11y ago
  > Haven't you just confirmed that in your opinion, the problem is that the teachers and administration can't or won't do anything, so they're doing "bullying theater", and handing off the problem to all the pencil-necked bystanders, who really have no business intervening, and lots of motivation not to intervene? Oh, totally agree. The end result is awful, regardless of the reasons. > Personally, I don't even believe the "fear of lawsuits" thing. I was in middle school in the mid-70s, in Missouri. The crustier teachers still gave out "swats" as punishment. No fear of a lawsuit there. This ain't the 70s. Such a teacher's ass would get fired very quickly. And it's not just lawsuits—parents can and will go to the media, and sometimes they print what they say, especially if something can be framed (justly or not, doesn't matter) as racism. > Bullying was more or less winked at, depending on who was getting bullied. You don't have to believe me, but I saw a PE "teacher" walk in on a football player banging a poor kid's head into the wall, repeatedly. The "teacher" checked to see who was getting beaten, then walked away quietly. I'm sure this happens—I've seen too many accounts of it to believe otherwise. As with things like e.g. the power of teacher's unions to protect bad teachers, I have a feeling the facts-on-the-ground for this issue vary greatly across the country, and even district-by-district and school-by-school. I doubt many teachers have a desire to preserve some power structure that involves bullying, though some might—usually they'd rather the bullies be removed from their class entirely. They're no fun for teachers, and their parents are usually even less fun. Mostly they want to go home feeling like the kids learned well that day, and bullies and other troublemakers are a leading obstacle to that. Effective responses to bullying aren't even available, though. Send 'em to the office, maybe a detention. Take away some recesses in lower grades. Talk to their parents, but their parents usually back them up and just get pissed off at the teacher (typically accusing them of racism when possible) so that's just tons of fun and so productive. That's about all they've got, and all it does is buy them (and the kids) a few hours at best.

by ashark 11y ago

bediger4000 11y ago

Haven't you just confirmed that in your opinion, the problem is that the teachers and administration can't or won't do anything, so they're doing "bullying theater", and handing off the problem to all the pencil-necked bystanders, who really have no business intervening, and lots of motivation not to intervene? What a ludicrous situation. Personally, I don't even believe the "fear of lawsuits" thing. I was in middle school in the mid-70s, in Missouri. The crustier teachers still gave out "swats" as punishment. No fear of a lawsuit there. Bullying was more or less winked at, depending on who was getting bullied. You don't have to believe me, but I saw a PE "teacher" walk in on a football player banging a poor kid's head into the wall, repeatedly. The "teacher" checked to see who was getting beaten, then walked away quietly. Bullying exists to preserve the power structure that teachers and administrators are part of, which extends from outside the school in. "Bullying Theater" isn't going to stop it, or even mitigate the problem, it's only going to make things worse, because after the theater takes place, then teachers and admins can legally wash their hands of it all, and blame the bystanders, as well as the victims.

ashark 11y ago
> Haven't you just confirmed that in your opinion, the problem is that the teachers and administration can't or won't do anything, so they're doing "bullying theater", and handing off the problem to all the pencil-necked bystanders, who really have no business intervening, and lots of motivation not to intervene? Oh, totally agree. The end result is awful, regardless of the reasons. > Personally, I don't even believe the "fear of lawsuits" thing. I was in middle school in the mid-70s, in Missouri. The crustier teachers still gave out "swats" as punishment. No fear of a lawsuit there. This ain't the 70s. Such a teacher's ass would get fired very quickly. And it's not just lawsuits—parents can and will go to the media, and sometimes they print what they say, especially if something can be framed (justly or not, doesn't matter) as racism. > Bullying was more or less winked at, depending on who was getting bullied. You don't have to believe me, but I saw a PE "teacher" walk in on a football player banging a poor kid's head into the wall, repeatedly. The "teacher" checked to see who was getting beaten, then walked away quietly. I'm sure this happens—I've seen too many accounts of it to believe otherwise. As with things like e.g. the power of teacher's unions to protect bad teachers, I have a feeling the facts-on-the-ground for this issue vary greatly across the country, and even district-by-district and school-by-school. I doubt many teachers have a desire to preserve some power structure that involves bullying, though some might—usually they'd rather the bullies be removed from their class entirely. They're no fun for teachers, and their parents are usually even less fun. Mostly they want to go home feeling like the kids learned well that day, and bullies and other troublemakers are a leading obstacle to that. Effective responses to bullying aren't even available, though. Send 'em to the office, maybe a detention. Take away some recesses in lower grades. Talk to their parents, but their parents usually back them up and just get pissed off at the teacher (typically accusing them of racism when possible) so that's just tons of fun and so productive. That's about all they've got, and all it does is buy them (and the kids) a few hours at best.