7 ms·

The Husband-And-Wife Team Behind the Web’s Most Infuriating Outdoor Retailer

31 points by andrewrice 11y ago

wanderfowl 11y ago
Brings to mind the old saying, which is extra applicable to e-commerce for hard-to-find items: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
mikestew 11y ago
Can't find an item anywhere else, yet one place claims to have dozens in their warehouse? You can almost rest assured that this one place isn't a special unicorn that has items no one else has. What you can reliably bet on is that there's some scamming going on somewhere in the process. I can't tell you how it's going to go, but at some point the company is going to behave dishonestly. Take these guys as an example: http://www.abesofmaine.com http://www.abesofmaine.com. Abe's used to be good. Then Abe got out of the business, and someone else snapped up the name. That someone did not share ol' Abe's ethics. Did you go to the link? Pick any random item on that site, I'll just about guarantee they don't have it. Oh, they'll have something similar that they'll try to sell you using the textbook definition of bait-and-switch. They'll tell you it's the same thing, just a different version, or whatever. Read online reviews, and you'll get the impression that their business plan must consist of one phrase: "bait-and-switch". (I use Abe's as example because I tried to buy the last of the high-end Samsung plasma TVs from them, thinking they were still the old Abe's. They had them in stock, at a not-outrageous price. Oops, no they didn't.) If you're going to spend $1000 on a jacket, check online reviews of the vendor, and use a credit card that backs you up when you dispute the charge (Amex comes to mind here; your Visa might offer the same, or it might not).
- wodenokoto 11y ago
  While it is smart to take precautions, it still doesn't change the fact that the operation is nothing but fraud, and the people behind should go to jail.
  - mikestew 11y ago
    I was not arguing that the two are mutually exclusive.
lxmorj 11y ago
Just use a damn credit card so that you have the option to contest the charge. Visa/Mastercard/Amex don't fuck around with this shit.
- taude 11y ago
  It mentions in the article that 123Mountain sent a credit-card chargeback to collections against one of their customers.
  - ssanders82 11y ago
    How exactly does that work? I thought the credit card company was the final arbiter of whether the charge was valid or not? If they decide it's not, can a collection agency really enter the fray?
    - Someone1234 11y ago
      Credit card chargebacks don't trump contract law. If you establish a contract with someone to pay X and you don't pay X then they could either sue you or send a collections agency after you... For most businesses if a customer conducts a chargeback even if they believe they're in the "right" they rarely pursue it due to bad PR and that the cost to pursue it may be more than the amount they're pursuing.
pge 11y ago
Having been through this with a different online retailer, I learned that not shipping goods in a reasonable time frame is an FTC violation. The state attorney general will almost certainly be able to prosecute successfully if facts are as presented and supported by written documents. In my case, the evidence I provided of a retailer not shipping product (and tracking down other scammed customers through online complaints) resulted in a conviction. Now, collecting damages is a different problem and unlikely because the criminals will skip town if they are smart. But at least the judgement will end that particular fraud and make it difficult for then to do business elsewhere.
Dr_tldr 11y ago
And this is why Amazon or REI should remain the preferred option even if the price is higher or the selection isn't as specialized. It's really strange that people would think online shopping is now a universally safe and hassle-free activity just because some reputable merchants do exist.
dzdt 11y ago
A year ago I almost ordered a pair of skis from 123mountain. They claimed to have them in stock when almost all other retailers did not. Fortunately I did some research before submitting the order and figured out they were likely scammers.

31 points by andrewrice 11y ago

Brings to mind the old saying, which is extra applicable to e-commerce for hard-to-find items: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

mikestew 11y ago

Can't find an item anywhere else, yet one place claims to have dozens in their warehouse? You can almost rest assured that this one place isn't a special unicorn that has items no one else has. What you can reliably bet on is that there's some scamming going on somewhere in the process. I can't tell you how it's going to go, but at some point the company is going to behave dishonestly. Take these guys as an example: http://www.abesofmaine.com http://www.abesofmaine.com. Abe's used to be good. Then Abe got out of the business, and someone else snapped up the name. That someone did not share ol' Abe's ethics. Did you go to the link? Pick any random item on that site, I'll just about guarantee they don't have it. Oh, they'll have something similar that they'll try to sell you using the textbook definition of bait-and-switch. They'll tell you it's the same thing, just a different version, or whatever. Read online reviews, and you'll get the impression that their business plan must consist of one phrase: "bait-and-switch". (I use Abe's as example because I tried to buy the last of the high-end Samsung plasma TVs from them, thinking they were still the old Abe's. They had them in stock, at a not-outrageous price. Oops, no they didn't.) If you're going to spend $1000 on a jacket, check online reviews of the vendor, and use a credit card that backs you up when you dispute the charge (Amex comes to mind here; your Visa might offer the same, or it might not).

wodenokoto 11y ago
While it is smart to take precautions, it still doesn't change the fact that the operation is nothing but fraud, and the people behind should go to jail.
- mikestew 11y ago
  I was not arguing that the two are mutually exclusive.

lxmorj 11y ago

Just use a damn credit card so that you have the option to contest the charge. Visa/Mastercard/Amex don't fuck around with this shit.

taude 11y ago
It mentions in the article that 123Mountain sent a credit-card chargeback to collections against one of their customers.
- ssanders82 11y ago
  How exactly does that work? I thought the credit card company was the final arbiter of whether the charge was valid or not? If they decide it's not, can a collection agency really enter the fray?
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    Credit card chargebacks don't trump contract law. If you establish a contract with someone to pay X and you don't pay X then they could either sue you or send a collections agency after you... For most businesses if a customer conducts a chargeback even if they believe they're in the "right" they rarely pursue it due to bad PR and that the cost to pursue it may be more than the amount they're pursuing.

pge 11y ago

Having been through this with a different online retailer, I learned that not shipping goods in a reasonable time frame is an FTC violation. The state attorney general will almost certainly be able to prosecute successfully if facts are as presented and supported by written documents. In my case, the evidence I provided of a retailer not shipping product (and tracking down other scammed customers through online complaints) resulted in a conviction. Now, collecting damages is a different problem and unlikely because the criminals will skip town if they are smart. But at least the judgement will end that particular fraud and make it difficult for then to do business elsewhere.

Dr_tldr 11y ago

And this is why Amazon or REI should remain the preferred option even if the price is higher or the selection isn't as specialized. It's really strange that people would think online shopping is now a universally safe and hassle-free activity just because some reputable merchants do exist.

dzdt 11y ago

A year ago I almost ordered a pair of skis from 123mountain. They claimed to have them in stock when almost all other retailers did not. Fortunately I did some research before submitting the order and figured out they were likely scammers.