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For toy projects and fast prototyping... JS ecosystem looks awesome but for enterprise grade software it looks like: toy for kinder garden developers. Mostly c

For toy projects and fast prototyping... JS ecosystem looks awesome but for enterprise grade software it looks like: toy for kinder garden developers. Mostly cause the enterprise love to support legacy software from 5 years ago (your nice webapp won't work that fast on IE8) and requires minimal support for the next 5 to 8 years. Web Development future looks fragile IMHO.

brndn 11y ago
The kindergarten developers at Netflix and PayPal (to name a few) use NodeJS in production.
joshmanders 11y ago
I'm sure Netflix, PayPal, Walmart, LinkedIn, Uber, New York Times, Medium, IBM are all kinder garden developers.
- SadWebDeveloper 11y ago
  Everyday amazes me that people actually think that when an a "Big Corporation" announces a new technology adoption they actually believe they rewrite everything for that new technology and don't consider it a PR/SnakeOil/Smokeware movement.
  - joshmanders 11y ago
    You do realize these companies have posted blog posts explaining the benefits of them doing just what you say they don't do... PayPal's Mobile.de team blogged about rewriting their Java system in Node.js and how performance was improved and how much faster they can work. Netflix has also blogged about similar experiences. Walmart blogged about how they rewrote their site in Node.js and was able to handle traffic on Black Friday way better than with previous systems. PayPal themselves wrote about rewriting the account dashboard in Node and how it improved things. This isn't snake oil or a PR movement. These are real companies using Node.js to make their businesses better. Uber talks about how their whole infrastructure is built on Node.js IBM bought Strongloop, self proclaimed "The Node.js Company".
    - pikzen 11y ago
      > was able to handle traffic on Black Friday way better than with previous systems. >how it improved things. > how performance was improved and how much faster they can work. Do a full rewrite of some ten years old software in any language and it's very likely to be faster. Architecture and software engineering made it faster, not Node. Had they used brainfuck and gotten better perfs, would you have praised brainfuck?
      - brndn 11y ago
        You are just speculating and can't possibly claim that the Node played no role in their performance/productivity increase. I'm sure they improved their architecture and fixed mistakes, but they didn't switch to Node for no reason. They could have rewritten in the same language.
    - LoSboccacc 11y ago
      How much of that is because the second time you come to solve a problem, you have already learned all the solutions? not negating the power of node.js, but if you google enough you can see success stories of migrating from any to any other language, including https://blog.twitter.com/2011/twitter-search-is-now-3x-faster https://blog.twitter.com/2011/twitter-search-is-now-3x-faste...
    - SadWebDeveloper 11y ago
      by your logic PHP/Hack should be used by everyone because it can handle the site-scale of Facebook...
  - pluma 11y ago
    Everyday amazes me that people actually think bigger companies write better software.
- hibikir 11y ago
  When you are talking large companies, you have to understand that any opinion is a partial opinion. it could be one team that likes a tool, it could be most of the organization. Also, having something in production doesn't mean it's liked: Maybe something that looked rosy and nice at one point now is seen as a nightmare. It's just that when big corporations regret something, they rarely do it publicly. It's amazing how many projects that are seen as wonderful tech successes, are big failures in practice. When talking specifically about NodeJs, in at least one of the cases you mention, there is a lot of skepticism about their experience, and barring a few champions of the faith, high profile Node uses would be rewritten into something else.
jahewson 11y ago
So what 2011 vintage technology would you advocate using?

brndn 11y ago

The kindergarten developers at Netflix and PayPal (to name a few) use NodeJS in production.

joshmanders 11y ago

I'm sure Netflix, PayPal, Walmart, LinkedIn, Uber, New York Times, Medium, IBM are all kinder garden developers.

SadWebDeveloper 11y ago
Everyday amazes me that people actually think that when an a "Big Corporation" announces a new technology adoption they actually believe they rewrite everything for that new technology and don't consider it a PR/SnakeOil/Smokeware movement.
- joshmanders 11y ago
  You do realize these companies have posted blog posts explaining the benefits of them doing just what you say they don't do... PayPal's Mobile.de team blogged about rewriting their Java system in Node.js and how performance was improved and how much faster they can work. Netflix has also blogged about similar experiences. Walmart blogged about how they rewrote their site in Node.js and was able to handle traffic on Black Friday way better than with previous systems. PayPal themselves wrote about rewriting the account dashboard in Node and how it improved things. This isn't snake oil or a PR movement. These are real companies using Node.js to make their businesses better. Uber talks about how their whole infrastructure is built on Node.js IBM bought Strongloop, self proclaimed "The Node.js Company".
  - pikzen 11y ago
    > was able to handle traffic on Black Friday way better than with previous systems. >how it improved things. > how performance was improved and how much faster they can work. Do a full rewrite of some ten years old software in any language and it's very likely to be faster. Architecture and software engineering made it faster, not Node. Had they used brainfuck and gotten better perfs, would you have praised brainfuck?
    - brndn 11y ago
      You are just speculating and can't possibly claim that the Node played no role in their performance/productivity increase. I'm sure they improved their architecture and fixed mistakes, but they didn't switch to Node for no reason. They could have rewritten in the same language.
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    How much of that is because the second time you come to solve a problem, you have already learned all the solutions? not negating the power of node.js, but if you google enough you can see success stories of migrating from any to any other language, including https://blog.twitter.com/2011/twitter-search-is-now-3x-faster https://blog.twitter.com/2011/twitter-search-is-now-3x-faste...
  - SadWebDeveloper 11y ago
    by your logic PHP/Hack should be used by everyone because it can handle the site-scale of Facebook...
- pluma 11y ago
  Everyday amazes me that people actually think bigger companies write better software.
hibikir 11y ago
When you are talking large companies, you have to understand that any opinion is a partial opinion. it could be one team that likes a tool, it could be most of the organization. Also, having something in production doesn't mean it's liked: Maybe something that looked rosy and nice at one point now is seen as a nightmare. It's just that when big corporations regret something, they rarely do it publicly. It's amazing how many projects that are seen as wonderful tech successes, are big failures in practice. When talking specifically about NodeJs, in at least one of the cases you mention, there is a lot of skepticism about their experience, and barring a few champions of the faith, high profile Node uses would be rewritten into something else.

jahewson 11y ago

So what 2011 vintage technology would you advocate using?