4 ms·

If that's what the market wants, that's what the market wants. Are you saying that these apps will suddenly (by virtue of being approved) be listed on the top

by aditya 17y ago

If that's what the market wants, that's what the market wants. Are you saying that these apps will suddenly (by virtue of being approved) be listed on the top apps lists, and become popular? If so, what's wrong with that, let the people decide what the people want, no? There's spammers and scammers on the web, and people fall for them all the time, is that a good argument to police the web, then?

maxklein 17y ago
It's not what the market wants. It's what the suppliers want. Let me give an analogy: There is a country with no pineapples. Someone grows a pineapple farm, and sells pineapples. There are no other pineapples, so he charges a lot for them. He becomes rich. Other farmers hear of this and start growing pineapples - they become rich at the start, but as pineapples become more available, soon the price of pineapples is the same as everywhere else. But people have a lot of invested resources in pineapples, so they start selling at discounts. There are more pineapples than consumers, so people start getting aggressive with their sales. The guys who made the money leave the unprofitable market to go sell maize, but the late entries who have just invested in pineapples, and the people who were dirt poor, are still battling on, trying to sell their pineapples. They start harvesting unripe pineapples and heating them to make them seem ripe quicker. People get disillusioned with all the shit pineapples they are getting and decide to rather buy some other fruit without all the competition. When they do buy pineapples, they stick to very old and trusted names - new pineapple sellers are automatically assumed to be doing something corny. -- What I'm saying is - the suppliers will destroy the market.
- aditya 17y ago
  You're saying that because there will be a ton of porn/scammy apps on the app store, people are going to stop wanting apps? I'm not sure what you're implying, so could you tell me what you think, realistically, will happen if the approval process lets everyone in, that cannot be solved by smart filters (ie. top apps lists, child-safe apps, as voted upon by people using the store)
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  Do you have any references to real-life instances of this happening? It's interesting, but speculation. And it reminds me of the so-called Tragedy of the Commons, a oft-cited parable that doesn't play out quite like that in real life. http://onthecommons.org/content.php?id=2542 http://onthecommons.org/content.php?id=2542
- Nwallins 17y ago
  > There are more pineapples than consumers, so people start getting aggressive with their sales. > They start harvesting unripe pineapples and heating them to make them seem ripe quicker. If there is already an oversupply of pineapples, I think suppliers would would want to stretch the ripening times and optimize for quality instead. > People get disillusioned with all the shit pineapples they are getting and decide to rather buy some other fruit without all the competition With an oversupply, the consumer actually gets a very good value. The price is right, and there are plenty to choose from. Consumers like competition. I'm not sure what this example demonstrates. Of course every individual supplier wants less competition. But don't forget that the suppliers in this case are developers, and it's the developers that are complaining about the status quo.
cesare 17y ago
It seems a pretty rational argument to me. I have no idea why you're being downvoted.
- mechanical_fish 17y ago
  Because it's a zeroth-order, zero-thought mantra of an argument? A childish one-dimensional approach to a multidimensional question? Among other things: There is no "market". There are markets. There is a market for hardcore pron. There is a market for child-safe web surfing. There is a market for violent games. There is a market for nonviolent games. There is a market for a device you can be seen using in a corporate boardroom. There is a market for a device you can give to your mom. There is a market for a device that makes Steve Jobs proud. Many of these markets are mutually exclusive. Some of these markets are bigger than others. Some of them have higher prestige. Some of them have much higher margins.
  - aditya 17y ago
    So that's easily solvable using a filter of some sort. What's stopping apple from adding a filter that says: "Child-safe" but allowing every app in to the app store, so that you can turn the filter off and browse whatever it is that you want. By market I really meant, people, as opposed to referring to a free market of some sort. I think a free market would be great if there was some mechanism to allow the good stuff to bubble up to the top.
    - GHFigs 17y ago
      What's stopping apple from adding a filter that says: "Child-safe"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store#Application_ratings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store#Application_ratings
    - Lazlo_Nibble 17y ago
      What's stopping Apple is the cost-benefit analysis -- implementing and policing a filtering system to replace the current approval process (especially policing it) costs Apple more in time, money and complexity than it benefits them. The App Store, like the iTunes store, exists solely to move Apple's hardware. The calculus isn't "will opening up the App Store please the handful of developers who refuse to operate under its current restrictions", it's "will opening up the App Store significantly increase sales of iPods/iPhones/iPads." I have yet to see a convincing argument as to how opening up the App Store would do that.

by aditya 17y ago

maxklein 17y ago

It's not what the market wants. It's what the suppliers want. Let me give an analogy: There is a country with no pineapples. Someone grows a pineapple farm, and sells pineapples. There are no other pineapples, so he charges a lot for them. He becomes rich. Other farmers hear of this and start growing pineapples - they become rich at the start, but as pineapples become more available, soon the price of pineapples is the same as everywhere else. But people have a lot of invested resources in pineapples, so they start selling at discounts. There are more pineapples than consumers, so people start getting aggressive with their sales. The guys who made the money leave the unprofitable market to go sell maize, but the late entries who have just invested in pineapples, and the people who were dirt poor, are still battling on, trying to sell their pineapples. They start harvesting unripe pineapples and heating them to make them seem ripe quicker. People get disillusioned with all the shit pineapples they are getting and decide to rather buy some other fruit without all the competition. When they do buy pineapples, they stick to very old and trusted names - new pineapple sellers are automatically assumed to be doing something corny. -- What I'm saying is - the suppliers will destroy the market.

aditya 17y ago
You're saying that because there will be a ton of porn/scammy apps on the app store, people are going to stop wanting apps? I'm not sure what you're implying, so could you tell me what you think, realistically, will happen if the approval process lets everyone in, that cannot be solved by smart filters (ie. top apps lists, child-safe apps, as voted upon by people using the store)
jamesbritt 17y ago
Do you have any references to real-life instances of this happening? It's interesting, but speculation. And it reminds me of the so-called Tragedy of the Commons, a oft-cited parable that doesn't play out quite like that in real life. http://onthecommons.org/content.php?id=2542 http://onthecommons.org/content.php?id=2542
Nwallins 17y ago
> There are more pineapples than consumers, so people start getting aggressive with their sales. > They start harvesting unripe pineapples and heating them to make them seem ripe quicker. If there is already an oversupply of pineapples, I think suppliers would would want to stretch the ripening times and optimize for quality instead. > People get disillusioned with all the shit pineapples they are getting and decide to rather buy some other fruit without all the competition With an oversupply, the consumer actually gets a very good value. The price is right, and there are plenty to choose from. Consumers like competition. I'm not sure what this example demonstrates. Of course every individual supplier wants less competition. But don't forget that the suppliers in this case are developers, and it's the developers that are complaining about the status quo.

cesare 17y ago

It seems a pretty rational argument to me. I have no idea why you're being downvoted.

mechanical_fish 17y ago
Because it's a zeroth-order, zero-thought mantra of an argument? A childish one-dimensional approach to a multidimensional question? Among other things: There is no "market". There are markets. There is a market for hardcore pron. There is a market for child-safe web surfing. There is a market for violent games. There is a market for nonviolent games. There is a market for a device you can be seen using in a corporate boardroom. There is a market for a device you can give to your mom. There is a market for a device that makes Steve Jobs proud. Many of these markets are mutually exclusive. Some of these markets are bigger than others. Some of them have higher prestige. Some of them have much higher margins.
- aditya 17y ago
  So that's easily solvable using a filter of some sort. What's stopping apple from adding a filter that says: "Child-safe" but allowing every app in to the app store, so that you can turn the filter off and browse whatever it is that you want. By market I really meant, people, as opposed to referring to a free market of some sort. I think a free market would be great if there was some mechanism to allow the good stuff to bubble up to the top.
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    What's stopping apple from adding a filter that says: "Child-safe"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store#Application_ratings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store#Application_ratings
  - Lazlo_Nibble 17y ago
    What's stopping Apple is the cost-benefit analysis -- implementing and policing a filtering system to replace the current approval process (especially policing it) costs Apple more in time, money and complexity than it benefits them. The App Store, like the iTunes store, exists solely to move Apple's hardware. The calculus isn't "will opening up the App Store please the handful of developers who refuse to operate under its current restrictions", it's "will opening up the App Store significantly increase sales of iPods/iPhones/iPads." I have yet to see a convincing argument as to how opening up the App Store would do that.