3 ms·

and wait for what? performance-improvement plan as paper trail for firing? "company culture" term is exactly that: company-wide culture. it's not that there is

by pound 11y ago

and wait for what? performance-improvement plan as paper trail for firing? "company culture" term is exactly that: company-wide culture. it's not that there is one fucked-up individual and it just happened that his(her) bosses/peers are just not aware of what's going on. it's accepted there, for whatever their rotten reasons are

geomark 11y ago
Correct. You'll get a PIP and, given that management are such a-holes, you will soon be terminated for cause. Not a great thing to have following you if you are early in your career.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  In my experience (on the employer side), you will terminated for performance, terminated at will, or at worst terminated for insubordination, but not terminated "for cause". Terminated for cause is very serious and generally means a serious breach of some sort: embezzlement, harassment, breach of contract, etc. Termination of any of the other sorts is much less serious, usually results in severance and unemployment eligibility, and if you're coming from a place that mistreats its workers, it's generally not a hard story to sell that you stood up for yourself and got whacked for it. Other employers know the jackass employers by reputation, at least in the local area.
  - geomark 11y ago
    Terminated for insubordination is actually what I meant. I seem to recall that that was one of the "for cause" criterion, but not absolutely sure. Regardless, at the companies where I worked it meant involuntary termination without eligibility for rehire, no severance, and no unemployment benefits.
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      UI eligibility varies state by state. Here in MA, the FAQ says: "if your employer is able to show that you were fired for deliberate misconduct or violation of a company rule, you may be disqualified." My strong wager is that standing up for abusive management practice would not trigger the "violation of company rule" clause and an employer with a penchant for acting like a jerk is unlikely to fight such a UI claim. http://www.mass.gov/lwd/unemployment-insur/resources/questions-and-answers/claimants/eligibility.html#fired http://www.mass.gov/lwd/unemployment-insur/resources/questio...
      - geomark 11y ago
        Sure, but the problem is that if the employer is really bad they will strongly deny any abusive behavior and insist the employee simply refused to follow reasonable orders. Does the employee have to sue to get that overturned, and how would they win if it is one person's word against another?

by pound 11y ago

geomark 11y ago

Correct. You'll get a PIP and, given that management are such a-holes, you will soon be terminated for cause. Not a great thing to have following you if you are early in your career.

sokoloff 11y ago
In my experience (on the employer side), you will terminated for performance, terminated at will, or at worst terminated for insubordination, but not terminated "for cause". Terminated for cause is very serious and generally means a serious breach of some sort: embezzlement, harassment, breach of contract, etc. Termination of any of the other sorts is much less serious, usually results in severance and unemployment eligibility, and if you're coming from a place that mistreats its workers, it's generally not a hard story to sell that you stood up for yourself and got whacked for it. Other employers know the jackass employers by reputation, at least in the local area.
- geomark 11y ago
  Terminated for insubordination is actually what I meant. I seem to recall that that was one of the "for cause" criterion, but not absolutely sure. Regardless, at the companies where I worked it meant involuntary termination without eligibility for rehire, no severance, and no unemployment benefits.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    UI eligibility varies state by state. Here in MA, the FAQ says: "if your employer is able to show that you were fired for deliberate misconduct or violation of a company rule, you may be disqualified." My strong wager is that standing up for abusive management practice would not trigger the "violation of company rule" clause and an employer with a penchant for acting like a jerk is unlikely to fight such a UI claim. http://www.mass.gov/lwd/unemployment-insur/resources/questions-and-answers/claimants/eligibility.html#fired http://www.mass.gov/lwd/unemployment-insur/resources/questio...
    - geomark 11y ago
      Sure, but the problem is that if the employer is really bad they will strongly deny any abusive behavior and insist the employee simply refused to follow reasonable orders. Does the employee have to sue to get that overturned, and how would they win if it is one person's word against another?