4 ms·
that seems an egregious misreading of the parable: At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird
by justifier 11y ago
that seems an egregious misreading of the parable:
At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a
famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird
which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he
was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic
and calculation and geometry and astronomy and
draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the
use of letters.
Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the
whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great
city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian
Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon.
To him came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring
that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the
benefit of them; he enumerated them, and Thamus enquired
about their several uses, and praised some of them and
censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them.
It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus
said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts.
But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will
make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories;
it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit.
Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or
inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the
utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users
of them.
And in this instance, you who are the father of letters,
from a paternal love of your own children have been led
to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have;
for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness
in the learners' souls, because they will not use their
memories; they will trust to the external written
characters and not remember of themselves.
The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to
memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples
not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be
hearers of many things and will have learned nothing;
they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know
nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of
wisdom without the reality.
from Plato's Phaedrus(o)
much different than claiming Socrate's criticised reading and writing
it's a parable, and one i read as intending to warn people of technology's ability to encourage the thinking that one can inform without comprehending
memory without understanding
mastery without failure
this reading allows for readers to be able to ask questions
(o) http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedrus.html http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedrus.html
- justifier 11y agotimely.. "On this day (February 15) 2415 years ago, Socrates was sentenced to death by people of Athens. " https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/45wefo/on_this_day_february_15_2415_years_ago_socrates/ https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/45wefo/on_this_...
- iofj 11y agoWe should really get rid of those myths. Yes Socrates was executed. Yes he was teaching students philosophy/science (there was no difference in antiquity). The guy who told his story was a student of his, a big fan of him, and absolutely did not agree with the judgement of the people, but there's a huge but here: You may want to google "thirty tyrants" and read a bit and you'll quickly see there's more to the story. The claim is that Socrates was executed for constantly criticizing the state, for putting science and philosophy/ethics ahead of the interests of the state, and thereby corrupting youth and his students. That, taken in 20th century context sounds bad, really, really bad. However, here's what they meant by that statement : not once but twice the people he taught tried to overthrow the state. You see, Socrates hated democracy with a passion, to the point that he advocated using mass violence and killing to end it. One of these coup attempts by his students succeeded and proceeded to execute >5% of the total population of Athens in a little over a year for various imagined offences. One of the tyrants, their leader if they had any, a relative and pupil of Socrates is described as "determined to remake the city and kill democracy whatever the cost in lives". While Socrates distanced himself from their actions, and even managed to make enemies of some of them, there's good reason to believe he was involved. When the tyrants were overthrown, democracy was reinstated, and Socrates was left unpunished on condition of not teaching anymore. It didn't take him a week to violate this condition, and once again he raged against the state and it didn't take long for his students to attempt yet another coup. Shortly after that coup attempt was thwarted, again with loss of life, he was executed, right after his students who attempted the coup and survived were. Socrates was a man who believed, taught and fought for the idea that "those in the moral right" (and he meant him and his students) should control all of society, and he kept fighting for it after having demonstrated what happened (ie. the killing of >5% of Athens). Was this guy executed "for his defense of science" ? No. He was a dangerous lunatic that actually managed to organize an armed force that successfully (for a time) tried to implement his view of a "morally correct" society by mass murder.