7 ms·

What is unfortunate about this is that Alan is clearly in need of friends, but his abrasive manner would certainly be off-putting to the people around him. So h

What is unfortunate about this is that Alan is clearly in need of friends, but his abrasive manner would certainly be off-putting to the people around him. So he has to ask random strangers for feedback on his writing instead of his friends. America used to be more tolerant of this kind of social stupidity. In an earlier time, Alan could have found many friends among his community. For lack of better things to do, these friends would have filed off his rough edges and given him probably-bad, but well-meaning advice on his writing, which would have helped him out much more than this journal article will. But no, all of our dance cards are full, it's so difficult to find meaningful relationships in our daily lives. The socially adept can easily insulate themselves from the unwashed masses and never have to learn how to respond appropriately to someone like that. So recluses become even more reclusive, hiding away in their rooms and developing this kind of ego complex. So very sad.

Zikes 11y ago
The "appropriate response" for the sort of things he was saying used to be a gentleman's duel.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  You don't challenge every idiot that insults you to a duel. Since duels are extremely risky, you would only demand one when something more important than your life is at stake. Like your honor, or that of your beloved. To put honor at stake, the insults must be issued in public, with a specific goal of that besmirching. Even then most reasonable people will take steps to allay the situation before it gets too bad. And that was only something the nobility did. Everybody else just started a fight. Taking a few swings provides everyone around with entertainment while letting you work out your anger in a relatively safe way.
the_cat_kittles 11y ago
thats an interesting point, but i wonder, how do you know its true? i initially agree because the internet enables social reclusion, but i dont know if i have anything more concrete to go on than that. as someone who went to small middle and high school, i've seen how often people who would just be ignored because they are rough around the edges end up being great members of the community when proximity and exposure help overcome the initial friction. i guess what im saying is i agree with you if there is some reason to believe that there is something that has actually lowered proximity and exposure, and im not so sure the internet really has, but i really dont know. i would say the writers response is very helpful though, it contextualizes alan for himself. could it be more helpful and less insulting? sure, but its pretty good overall, especially when you compare it to how little effort alan put forth in the communication.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  I personally gravitate towards odd ducks like Alan, so I might have struck up a weekly email correspondence, if only to gain a sense for what makes him tick. I would have challenged him on a few points of his Shakespearean criticism and humored him so he didn't have to feel so lonely. After some back and forth on that I would have started asking him more about his life. I'd gently guide him towards courses of action that would naturally guide towards better health and success, like exercising, talking to real people, anything but whatever it is he does for 100+ hours every week. I'd keep it to 30 minutes a week to put a cap on it so he doesn't start running my life. But you'd be amazed at what you can do for someone just with that small amount of time.
  - the_cat_kittles 11y ago
    totally agree, since i have been the beneficiary of exactly what you've described. well, i guess you are cool. :)
  - petemc_ 11y ago
    It's easy enough to find Alan's email address if this is really how you feel.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      I gravitate towards them if they're around, I don't seek them out. Also, there's a reason Alan reached out to the professor, it's unlikely he would be as receptive to me reaching out to him.
      - praptak 11y ago
        > it's unlikely he would be as receptive to me reaching out to him. On the contrary, it is very likely. His site encourages readers to contact him.
  - crgabrieljr 11y ago
    Thanks for that. I'm fairly certain I've received benefit from folks who took the time to do what you describe when it would have been so much easier to turn away.
striking 11y ago
I don't agree that society has failed him. It takes two to tango; he has played a part in it himself. He's a Shakespearean conspiracy theorist, who spends inordinate amounts of time on this one thing. It's just a bizarre thing that most people could not make heads or tails of. I don't believe that no one wants to be his friend. I just don't think anyone knows how to be his friend.
- Zikes 11y ago
  Yours is a totally reasonable comment, but it seems to be getting a lot of downvotes. I'm seeing the same thing on other articles today; I wonder if there's some sort of brigading going on.
  - striking 11y ago
    I'm not particularly worried about it. Sometimes there are some stray downvotes that just end up hitting one of my comments. I have plenty of karma to spare anyway. Thanks for the kind words, though!
KineticLensman 11y ago
At least Alan's subject of obsession (Shakespeare) was long dead. If he had been alive, perhaps the dynamic here would have been more like Eminem's 'Stan'
vacri 11y ago
> In an earlier time, Alan could have found many friends among his community. There have always been loners and misfits and "stay away from that house, kids", and always will be. You say that on the one hand, we don't have the relationships we used to, but on the other hand, with technology and travel, tons of people are forging new relationships that they otherwise wouldn't. Gay people are able to find friendly communities and move to them where in the past they couldn't risk showing themselves. I don't think it's as easy as saying it's hard to make relationships in these modern times - the picture is shifting and complex. Higher populations paradoxically offer more opportunity for anonymity, but conversely being an outcast in a small community is worse than being anonymous.
lutusp 11y ago
> What is unfortunate about this is that Alan is clearly in need of friends, but his abrasive manner would certainly be off-putting to the people around him. So he has to ask random strangers for feedback on his writing instead of his friends. He's also a clinical narcissist. I don't pay much attention to what psychologists think, but narcissists are easy to spot -- as far as they're concerned, everyone else is a refractory, inert obstacle standing in the way of their richly deserved public recognition as the greatest genius who ever lived. More on this topic: http://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus http://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus
EC1 11y ago
That's me, people find me tough to handle and so I spend all my time on my own work. It's liberating in a way.
crgabrieljr 11y ago
Don't you think it is actually easier for social misfits to find others they can relate to in the internet age?
- zdkl 11y ago
  speaking for my sample size of 1, definitely not. Their are too many levels of indirection in our dealings with each other online to actually find with any accuracy people interested in the same groups/patterns of things as you. The internet has made it easier to me to find specific interests or cohorts because of how we tend to organise by 'watering hole' but beyond that, to me it's worse for gauging your counterpart interests beyond your immediate reason for interaction.
SilasX 11y ago
I would think it would be the opposite -- in the old days, if those around you didn't like your personality, you were locked out. Today, the whole world is your audience, and you can be content to deal with the small fraction that isn't put off by your attitude.
sxcurry 11y ago
He's more than abrasive - he's mentally ill. Why someone would waste even one electron replying to him is beyond me. That's what the delete key is for.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  We're all mentally ill in some sphere of life.

Zikes 11y ago

The "appropriate response" for the sort of things he was saying used to be a gentleman's duel.

vinceguidry 11y ago
You don't challenge every idiot that insults you to a duel. Since duels are extremely risky, you would only demand one when something more important than your life is at stake. Like your honor, or that of your beloved. To put honor at stake, the insults must be issued in public, with a specific goal of that besmirching. Even then most reasonable people will take steps to allay the situation before it gets too bad. And that was only something the nobility did. Everybody else just started a fight. Taking a few swings provides everyone around with entertainment while letting you work out your anger in a relatively safe way.

the_cat_kittles 11y ago

thats an interesting point, but i wonder, how do you know its true? i initially agree because the internet enables social reclusion, but i dont know if i have anything more concrete to go on than that. as someone who went to small middle and high school, i've seen how often people who would just be ignored because they are rough around the edges end up being great members of the community when proximity and exposure help overcome the initial friction. i guess what im saying is i agree with you if there is some reason to believe that there is something that has actually lowered proximity and exposure, and im not so sure the internet really has, but i really dont know. i would say the writers response is very helpful though, it contextualizes alan for himself. could it be more helpful and less insulting? sure, but its pretty good overall, especially when you compare it to how little effort alan put forth in the communication.

vinceguidry 11y ago
I personally gravitate towards odd ducks like Alan, so I might have struck up a weekly email correspondence, if only to gain a sense for what makes him tick. I would have challenged him on a few points of his Shakespearean criticism and humored him so he didn't have to feel so lonely. After some back and forth on that I would have started asking him more about his life. I'd gently guide him towards courses of action that would naturally guide towards better health and success, like exercising, talking to real people, anything but whatever it is he does for 100+ hours every week. I'd keep it to 30 minutes a week to put a cap on it so he doesn't start running my life. But you'd be amazed at what you can do for someone just with that small amount of time.
- the_cat_kittles 11y ago
  totally agree, since i have been the beneficiary of exactly what you've described. well, i guess you are cool. :)
- petemc_ 11y ago
  It's easy enough to find Alan's email address if this is really how you feel.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    I gravitate towards them if they're around, I don't seek them out. Also, there's a reason Alan reached out to the professor, it's unlikely he would be as receptive to me reaching out to him.
    - praptak 11y ago
      > it's unlikely he would be as receptive to me reaching out to him. On the contrary, it is very likely. His site encourages readers to contact him.
- crgabrieljr 11y ago
  Thanks for that. I'm fairly certain I've received benefit from folks who took the time to do what you describe when it would have been so much easier to turn away.

striking 11y ago

I don't agree that society has failed him. It takes two to tango; he has played a part in it himself. He's a Shakespearean conspiracy theorist, who spends inordinate amounts of time on this one thing. It's just a bizarre thing that most people could not make heads or tails of. I don't believe that no one wants to be his friend. I just don't think anyone knows how to be his friend.

Zikes 11y ago
Yours is a totally reasonable comment, but it seems to be getting a lot of downvotes. I'm seeing the same thing on other articles today; I wonder if there's some sort of brigading going on.
- striking 11y ago
  I'm not particularly worried about it. Sometimes there are some stray downvotes that just end up hitting one of my comments. I have plenty of karma to spare anyway. Thanks for the kind words, though!

KineticLensman 11y ago

At least Alan's subject of obsession (Shakespeare) was long dead. If he had been alive, perhaps the dynamic here would have been more like Eminem's 'Stan'

vacri 11y ago

> In an earlier time, Alan could have found many friends among his community. There have always been loners and misfits and "stay away from that house, kids", and always will be. You say that on the one hand, we don't have the relationships we used to, but on the other hand, with technology and travel, tons of people are forging new relationships that they otherwise wouldn't. Gay people are able to find friendly communities and move to them where in the past they couldn't risk showing themselves. I don't think it's as easy as saying it's hard to make relationships in these modern times - the picture is shifting and complex. Higher populations paradoxically offer more opportunity for anonymity, but conversely being an outcast in a small community is worse than being anonymous.

lutusp 11y ago

> What is unfortunate about this is that Alan is clearly in need of friends, but his abrasive manner would certainly be off-putting to the people around him. So he has to ask random strangers for feedback on his writing instead of his friends. He's also a clinical narcissist. I don't pay much attention to what psychologists think, but narcissists are easy to spot -- as far as they're concerned, everyone else is a refractory, inert obstacle standing in the way of their richly deserved public recognition as the greatest genius who ever lived. More on this topic: http://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus http://arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus

EC1 11y ago

That's me, people find me tough to handle and so I spend all my time on my own work. It's liberating in a way.

crgabrieljr 11y ago

Don't you think it is actually easier for social misfits to find others they can relate to in the internet age?

zdkl 11y ago
speaking for my sample size of 1, definitely not. Their are too many levels of indirection in our dealings with each other online to actually find with any accuracy people interested in the same groups/patterns of things as you. The internet has made it easier to me to find specific interests or cohorts because of how we tend to organise by 'watering hole' but beyond that, to me it's worse for gauging your counterpart interests beyond your immediate reason for interaction.

SilasX 11y ago

I would think it would be the opposite -- in the old days, if those around you didn't like your personality, you were locked out. Today, the whole world is your audience, and you can be content to deal with the small fraction that isn't put off by your attitude.

sxcurry 11y ago

He's more than abrasive - he's mentally ill. Why someone would waste even one electron replying to him is beyond me. That's what the delete key is for.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
We're all mentally ill in some sphere of life.