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Yes but I'm asking how. If you piss off your employees and they leave, how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company?

w1ntermute 11y ago
Because not that many employees actually left, despite being pissed off. There was no way the Valley élite would let one of their own (Tony Fadell) have a hard fall, so at least a semi-successful exit was guaranteed from the beginning. The reason why Jobs and Fadell could be assholes and still succeed is because they were/are Jobs/Fadell. That doesn't mean you or I can act like assholes and still succeed. Perhaps we could be assholes after we succeed, but that's a highly unlikely hypothetical.
- aledalgrande 11y ago
  I agree. I've seen a*holes who were nobodies, and they went nowhere. This is because he is Tony Fadell.
- xenadu02 11y ago
  I'd also point out that Jobs was know to have become less of an asshole by the time he returned to Apple. Some people think it was reconnecting to his family that helped but who knows. You can demand greatness without being an asshole. You can tell someone the work they did isn't good enough without being an asshole. You can also truthfully review someone's bad code without being an asshole, for what it's worth. Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two.
  - potatolicious 11y ago
    > "Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two." This reminds me of an old quote. "People who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty."
    - bobby_9x 11y ago
      I've also seen honesty being confused with being an 'asshole'. You tell someone something they don't want to hear, but need to hear, and you are now known as an asshole.
      - st3v3r 11y ago
        Not usually. People who do that think they're saying something that someone needs to hear, but they're usually either wrong, or saying it in a manner that does make them an asshole.
        bobby_9x 11y ago
        I disagree. Most people don’t want to hear the truth and will take anything they don’t want to hear as a personal attack against them. I’ve seen it time and time again.. and then pushed out on social media to make the person that said it look like the bad guy...and since it’s usually one person against another, it’s impossible to defend. This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times. It’s already been proven many times that privacy no longer matters. Hell, a guy got an entire basketball team taken away from him based on private conversations.
        dogecoinbase 11y ago
        This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times. "...you are now known as an asshole."
        st3v3r 11y ago
        "This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times." So rather than develop the interpersonal skills that would allow you to say those kinds of things without sounding like an asshole, you're just going to secretly record everyone you run into (which is something that will solidify you as an asshole), and have this video record of you being an asshole to people.
bschilke 11y ago
Could it be that the people that report to a Fadell/Jobs are very talented and are able to absorb the nastiness while motivating employees below them?
sliverstorm 11y ago
You could ask the same questions about abusive intimate relationships. Cribbing from that "book"- Destroy their sense of self-confidence & self-worth. Pick 'em young- they are easier to fool. Give them brief moments of sunshine to make them hope it'll get better. Promises. Threats. General megalomania.
- Rapidwire 11y ago
  What book?
  - sliverstorm 11y ago
    Like, playbook of running an abusive relationship. Figure of speech
freyr 11y ago
> how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company? Many people will allow themselves to be abused at work without doing anything about it. They'll commiserate with their coworkers, or vent on Glassdoor, or fantasize about leaving, but without ever following through. So some good ones leave, and the rest get ridden hard and work on weekends and stay late to make their managers happy and rich.
dboreham 11y ago
Because the net employee flux is positive. You have to be a total utter asshole to lose all your employees, it turns out (like, criminally abusive or just not pay them kind of bad). Being just a moderate asshole however tends to produce more work output from the employees you do manage to retain. So on balance its a win.

w1ntermute 11y ago

Because not that many employees actually left, despite being pissed off. There was no way the Valley élite would let one of their own (Tony Fadell) have a hard fall, so at least a semi-successful exit was guaranteed from the beginning. The reason why Jobs and Fadell could be assholes and still succeed is because they were/are Jobs/Fadell. That doesn't mean you or I can act like assholes and still succeed. Perhaps we could be assholes after we succeed, but that's a highly unlikely hypothetical.

aledalgrande 11y ago
I agree. I've seen a*holes who were nobodies, and they went nowhere. This is because he is Tony Fadell.
xenadu02 11y ago
I'd also point out that Jobs was know to have become less of an asshole by the time he returned to Apple. Some people think it was reconnecting to his family that helped but who knows. You can demand greatness without being an asshole. You can tell someone the work they did isn't good enough without being an asshole. You can also truthfully review someone's bad code without being an asshole, for what it's worth. Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  > "Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two." This reminds me of an old quote. "People who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty."
  - bobby_9x 11y ago
    I've also seen honesty being confused with being an 'asshole'. You tell someone something they don't want to hear, but need to hear, and you are now known as an asshole.
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      Not usually. People who do that think they're saying something that someone needs to hear, but they're usually either wrong, or saying it in a manner that does make them an asshole.
      - bobby_9x 11y ago
        I disagree. Most people don’t want to hear the truth and will take anything they don’t want to hear as a personal attack against them. I’ve seen it time and time again.. and then pushed out on social media to make the person that said it look like the bad guy...and since it’s usually one person against another, it’s impossible to defend. This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times. It’s already been proven many times that privacy no longer matters. Hell, a guy got an entire basketball team taken away from him based on private conversations.
        dogecoinbase 11y ago
        This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times. "...you are now known as an asshole."
        st3v3r 11y ago
        "This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam on me at all times." So rather than develop the interpersonal skills that would allow you to say those kinds of things without sounding like an asshole, you're just going to secretly record everyone you run into (which is something that will solidify you as an asshole), and have this video record of you being an asshole to people.

bschilke 11y ago

Could it be that the people that report to a Fadell/Jobs are very talented and are able to absorb the nastiness while motivating employees below them?

sliverstorm 11y ago

You could ask the same questions about abusive intimate relationships. Cribbing from that "book"- Destroy their sense of self-confidence & self-worth. Pick 'em young- they are easier to fool. Give them brief moments of sunshine to make them hope it'll get better. Promises. Threats. General megalomania.

Rapidwire 11y ago
What book?
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Like, playbook of running an abusive relationship. Figure of speech

freyr 11y ago

> how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company? Many people will allow themselves to be abused at work without doing anything about it. They'll commiserate with their coworkers, or vent on Glassdoor, or fantasize about leaving, but without ever following through. So some good ones leave, and the rest get ridden hard and work on weekends and stay late to make their managers happy and rich.

dboreham 11y ago

Because the net employee flux is positive. You have to be a total utter asshole to lose all your employees, it turns out (like, criminally abusive or just not pay them kind of bad). Being just a moderate asshole however tends to produce more work output from the employees you do manage to retain. So on balance its a win.