7 ms·

I watched the BAFTAs with my girlfriend last night and I have to say, when Stephen made that comment we both said 'woah that's a bit mean' out loud. Of course,

by rblstr 11y ago

I watched the BAFTAs with my girlfriend last night and I have to say, when Stephen made that comment we both said 'woah that's a bit mean' out loud. Of course, being the general public we're not aware of Mr Fry's relationship with the lady who won the award but from an outside perspective it came across as a bit bullying. I only found out today about the twitter backlash and I don't think it should be lumped in with so called SJW movements, or the anti-anti-offensive movement, it really sounded like a hurtful unnecessary comment that he shouldn't have made without context or clarifying their relationship. It really seemed un-characteristically mean for Mr Fry.

KerryJones 11y ago
This is the problem. He shouldn't have to clarify his relationship, he shouldn't have to explain everything. In essence, that destroys jokes. It's not our job to know, but as we should assume innocence until proven guilty we should assume friendliness before assuming ridicule. If Beaven had a problem -- let her handle it. She's a big girl, we're not her collective parents.
- rblstr 11y ago
  Without clarifying it it looks like he stood on stage in front of a bunch of rich celebrities and slagged off the winner of an award for not wearing conventional dress to an award show. I'm all for offensive comedy, but this wasn't a joke, he was basically slagging her off in public, live on television to a room full of people. Without context of their relationship it really looks like bullying. That's completely different to an offensive stand up comedy joke, especially when its so personally targeted. Some context to clarify that it wasn't mean and they're friends would have taken the edge off the 'joke' and nobody would have cared, but it was so off the cuff and mean it just looks like he is bullying her, which is probably what touched a chord with so many people. I'm sure Mr Fry is the last person who would want to be seen as bullying anyone.
  - monksy 11y ago
    Take a look at what was actually said: "Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady." If people weren't so quick to jump on the "blame the white guy" wagon... you'd see that it was actually a pretty clever statement.
    - muglug 11y ago
      Something can be both clever and offensive – the two are not mutually exclusive...
      - monksy 11y ago
        Could you explain to me how that statement is "offensive"?
        mwfunk 11y ago
        I'm more confused by "clever".
        hudibras 11y ago
        Do you really not understand how telling a woman that she looks like a bag lady is offensive, even setting aside the fact that a.) this was on a television program and b.) the woman was not in a position to say anything in response?
        monksy 11y ago
        "Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady. So lets break that down. The subject is a "cinematic costume designer" According to Sir Fry, she is a great one at that. Then we have the other part of the statement: "She came to the awards dressed as a bag lady." This part of the statement is a bit odd/stands out when compared to a group of rather posh individuals. When you put both parts of this together you have a really positive reference by Mr. Fry then combined with an odd/"less flattering" situation. It's ironic. This structure matches a classic setup/punchline structure of a joke: http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-structure/ http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-... What make this even funnier and more congratulating is: She's a costume designer. Maybe this was intended. At the end of the day Stephen Fry was pictured with the individual and there have been claims that there is no bad blood between the two.
- TheRealDunkirk 11y ago
  Combine this with stories that rise to prominence based on a limited set of facts, distorted truths, or outright lies, and it's particularly pernicious. That people are instantly willing to offer the absolute worst wishes (and actions) they can muster, on a few words posted over a picture, and personally involve themselves in something they know NOTHING about is disheartening.
  - jsmthrowaway 11y ago
    Not everyone deserves a microphone. Yet as an industry, we have built billions of them. (Comment sections, including this one, are the place to start when thinking about that.)
- rodgerd 11y ago
  > This is the problem. The problem is that Stephen Fry loves to dish it out, then has a petulant hissy fit because he can't take it. He loves to claim there's "no right not to be offended" - except when it comes to his precious sensibilities, apparently.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  If explaining that relationship destroys the joke, then the joke probably wasn't funny or in decent taste to begin with.
letsbereal 11y ago
But if she has just been (yet again) nominated as one of the World's or Britain's best costume designers, how is poking fun at her current outfit, by a comedian of all people, "being mean"? Is it not that contrast that makes the joke?
- rblstr 11y ago
  Well just watch the whole thing, from nomination to winning, to award acceptance to Mr Fry taking the stage again and tell me that his comment sounds like a joke. I'm sure he intended it to be a joke and to not be taken seriously, and I'm sure he was sincere when he was calling her the best costume designer in Britain, but the joke didn't work. The comment came across as crass and harsh and mocking of a woman who's just won an award just because she's dressed unconventionally for an awards ceremony. I think he missed the mark with his 'joke', and as I've said before I'm not personally offended and I'm not going to tell him off publicly on social media but I can't help how his comment felt mean spirited to me and still does despite context of their familiarity.
  - punee 11y ago
    His comment sounds like a joke.

by rblstr 11y ago

KerryJones 11y ago

This is the problem. He shouldn't have to clarify his relationship, he shouldn't have to explain everything. In essence, that destroys jokes. It's not our job to know, but as we should assume innocence until proven guilty we should assume friendliness before assuming ridicule. If Beaven had a problem -- let her handle it. She's a big girl, we're not her collective parents.

rblstr 11y ago
Without clarifying it it looks like he stood on stage in front of a bunch of rich celebrities and slagged off the winner of an award for not wearing conventional dress to an award show. I'm all for offensive comedy, but this wasn't a joke, he was basically slagging her off in public, live on television to a room full of people. Without context of their relationship it really looks like bullying. That's completely different to an offensive stand up comedy joke, especially when its so personally targeted. Some context to clarify that it wasn't mean and they're friends would have taken the edge off the 'joke' and nobody would have cared, but it was so off the cuff and mean it just looks like he is bullying her, which is probably what touched a chord with so many people. I'm sure Mr Fry is the last person who would want to be seen as bullying anyone.
- monksy 11y ago
  Take a look at what was actually said: "Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady." If people weren't so quick to jump on the "blame the white guy" wagon... you'd see that it was actually a pretty clever statement.
  - muglug 11y ago
    Something can be both clever and offensive – the two are not mutually exclusive...
    - monksy 11y ago
      Could you explain to me how that statement is "offensive"?
      - mwfunk 11y ago
        I'm more confused by "clever".
      - hudibras 11y ago
        Do you really not understand how telling a woman that she looks like a bag lady is offensive, even setting aside the fact that a.) this was on a television program and b.) the woman was not in a position to say anything in response?
        monksy 11y ago
        "Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady. So lets break that down. The subject is a "cinematic costume designer" According to Sir Fry, she is a great one at that. Then we have the other part of the statement: "She came to the awards dressed as a bag lady." This part of the statement is a bit odd/stands out when compared to a group of rather posh individuals. When you put both parts of this together you have a really positive reference by Mr. Fry then combined with an odd/"less flattering" situation. It's ironic. This structure matches a classic setup/punchline structure of a joke: http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-structure/ http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-... What make this even funnier and more congratulating is: She's a costume designer. Maybe this was intended. At the end of the day Stephen Fry was pictured with the individual and there have been claims that there is no bad blood between the two.
TheRealDunkirk 11y ago
Combine this with stories that rise to prominence based on a limited set of facts, distorted truths, or outright lies, and it's particularly pernicious. That people are instantly willing to offer the absolute worst wishes (and actions) they can muster, on a few words posted over a picture, and personally involve themselves in something they know NOTHING about is disheartening.
- jsmthrowaway 11y ago
  Not everyone deserves a microphone. Yet as an industry, we have built billions of them. (Comment sections, including this one, are the place to start when thinking about that.)
rodgerd 11y ago
> This is the problem. The problem is that Stephen Fry loves to dish it out, then has a petulant hissy fit because he can't take it. He loves to claim there's "no right not to be offended" - except when it comes to his precious sensibilities, apparently.
st3v3r 11y ago
If explaining that relationship destroys the joke, then the joke probably wasn't funny or in decent taste to begin with.

letsbereal 11y ago

But if she has just been (yet again) nominated as one of the World's or Britain's best costume designers, how is poking fun at her current outfit, by a comedian of all people, "being mean"? Is it not that contrast that makes the joke?

rblstr 11y ago
Well just watch the whole thing, from nomination to winning, to award acceptance to Mr Fry taking the stage again and tell me that his comment sounds like a joke. I'm sure he intended it to be a joke and to not be taken seriously, and I'm sure he was sincere when he was calling her the best costume designer in Britain, but the joke didn't work. The comment came across as crass and harsh and mocking of a woman who's just won an award just because she's dressed unconventionally for an awards ceremony. I think he missed the mark with his 'joke', and as I've said before I'm not personally offended and I'm not going to tell him off publicly on social media but I can't help how his comment felt mean spirited to me and still does despite context of their familiarity.
- punee 11y ago
  His comment sounds like a joke.