7 ms·

Movebubble, an app that aims to make renting in London suck less, raises $1.6M

32 points by romarv 11y ago

ciudilo 11y ago
This is just another front for slimy estate agents.
- camillomiller 11y ago
  This TechCrunch and the app was presented at a TC disrupt event. You can't expect criticism from them.
- nallen84 11y ago
  Hi Ciudilo, I'm Nick from Movebubble. I understand why you'd be sceptical about the app simply taking estate agent properties and passing them along to users. But our model is renter first. We don't make any money from agents. We work very hard to make sure we deal with agents that offer a good service for renters. We are also continually monitoring property listings to help ensure they are good quality and of a certain standard.
  - ascorbic 11y ago
    So where does the money come from? The tenants?
danpalmer 11y ago
As a software developer, living in London, who was in the process of finding a new flat until 2 days ago, this was not marketed particularly well! I'm right in the middle of the target market and have never heard of this.
- nallen84 11y ago
  You're right. We're just starting to get our message out there with an increased focus on marketing. You will hopefully see and hear about us more over the coming weeks/months.
ascorbic 11y ago
"it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app" So this is just another aggregator like Rightmove? They're promising real-time availability information, but why would a letting agent update the availability on Movebubble and not Rightmove? What makes it more likely to be real-time than any other aggregator?
k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "The problem with Rightmove and Zoopla is that they don’t see the renter through to the point of viewing properties – renters have to ring up so many different estate agents (there are over 2,000 in London) that it’s nearly impossible to keep track of bookings and you have to note down all these details elsewhere" This is a problem? I've rented several times in London, including recently. Calling someone and writing a time down in your calendar is not a problem. I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. People have very different expectations. When moving and renting out my old room I've had people think the place was amazing and others think it was terrible. You need to see places yourself, in person. Honestly I think the whole 'renting in London is hard' thing is overblown. I'm working on a pretty low budget and I can find rooms that are good enough for me quite easily. I've also gone through the process of renting an entire apartment (as opposed to just a room) and it's even easier. You call several estate agents, tell them your budget and requirements, and when something comes up they call you. And it's free.
- danpalmer 11y ago
  Having just finished this process (found a flat 2 days ago), I couldn't disagree more. Finding a flat was essentially a full time job for me for a week. Agents don't respect your time, or your budget, the good stuff isn't on Rightmove because it's gone by the time the agent gets around to adding it, viewings have to be within 48 hours or else the place is gone, etc. It's honestly one of the most stressful things I have to do. (although I don't think this app solves that)
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  >I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. If there were a public 'issue tracker' for properties that would be very useful. Seeing how quickly and how well Landlords respond to things like a broken heating system or mold would be invaluable when finding a place to live, and having this information made public would also kick some of them into action. Similarly, if renters could have their payment history tracked so landlords know that they pay on time and that previous landlords didn't have any disputes with you, that would be invaluable.
danpalmer 11y ago
This doesn't appear to solve the real issues I have with flat-hunting in London, namely that the agents are terrible people, and that it's impossible to search for the things you want. You can't search for "is not falling apart", "has internet over 2Mbps", "has a supermarket nearby", or "is under a 30 min commute for these 2 offices". These are the things I care about, but no one is solving these as issues.
- panamafrank 11y ago
  Add to that: Landlord is not a criminal Does not have rats
  - elcct 11y ago
    Is not next to a squat Not a council house Was not previously occupied by criminals It doesn't have elderly neighbours No kebab / chicken shops within x metres
    - smcl 11y ago
      I'm curious - why would you not want elderly neighbours?
      - Herald_MJ 11y ago
        Actually, I don't think any of those criteria should definitively rule a place out.
        smcl 11y ago
        Personally me neither but I can understand the other reasons to some extent
      - elcct 11y ago
        Because some are difficult - for example being nosy, over-sensitive to noise and so on.
SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
Unless you change the quantity and quality of rental flats available in London, you will not make it suck less; you will just make the existing suck happen faster. There is no shortage of estate agents, in fact it's often said that there are too many. There's no lack of aggregation sites either.
- Aidan_Rushby 11y ago
  Hi, I agree we cant solve the supply and demand issue around renting a property but we can make it such more transparent, Personal and renter friendly. We are not an estate agent or an aggregation site. Movebubble is here to help and put renters first! we are building products that will enable to renters to have a much more efficient process to rent a property and help them waste less time during this stressful period.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
    Thankfully I'm not in that market now, but I hear things from friends who are. What makes finding a rental flat stressful and a waste of time is the process of chasing down suitable leads and getting a deposit in before anyone else does. Speeding that up for everyone is not going to make it less stressful, is it?
  - lmm 11y ago
    What is the concrete difference between you and an estate agent or aggregation site?
    - Aidan_Rushby 11y ago
      Apart from we are 100% focused on looking out for the renters. We do not make money from agents or landlords therefore are here to innovate for the renters. So of the key product feature are... - Renters helping renters to provide real time property availability via sharing data in the app. - Booking and schedule viewings via the app. - Rating agents/properties to help other renters get better experience. - Shortly you will be able to rent the property via the app.
diezge 11y ago
Now if only there were an app to make renting in London cost less...
- lgieron 11y ago
  It's called 'election'.
thingamarobert 11y ago
I'd feel more excited about something that comes up with a way to completely get rid of agents. In my opinion, services for letting should look at establishing a more transparent and direct operating channel between the tenants and landlords. The paperwork is generally standard. There are deposit protection schemes to protect the tenant's deposit. Landlords can directly get in touch with agencies that do reference checks and property damage checks before and after tenancy. This information can be made available on the app/website for those interested. If an app makes it easy enough to do all this, even for the not so tech-savvy (these are the types of landlords I've come across through agents), this letting agency menace can be gotten rid of altogether. I always thought this was the point of using the internet for property letting. Of course, my opinion is biased from the point of view of someone who has not had such a good experience with letting agents. I know openrent.co.uk is trying to head in that direction. Universities also have their own housing departments that put students in touch with prospective landlords who have registered with them at no cost at all to either party. Maybe employers/corporates could also start doing the same.
- notahacker 11y ago
  Agents are mostly there to promote the property and conduct viewings. Many landlords don't have the time or inclination to handle that side of things. Software can do a lot of the agent's work, but not all of it for all people. The reference checks are just profit centres for the agents, so they actually want you to overpay for a new check each time.
  - lgieron 11y ago
    Also, a lot of the landlors just live outside of London (usually in a cheaper city/country).
Joeboy 11y ago
Is there no way to search for properties on a desktop computer, or am I an idiot?
ommunist 11y ago
Well. As a small landlord in Watford, I'd rather appreciate the service that brings me good tenants. Non smoking (hash included), tolerable to kids next door and caring for a shared garden.
haphazardeous 11y ago
Will the rate stats include the history of rent increases? Or for that matter how the landlord behaved when the previous tenant moved out? Rental market in London is an absolute car crash. Most of us don't even bother doing anything about how we're treated and so the next tenant will have no way of knowing what they'll encounter within or at the end of their tenancy. I hope this app will make some difference but the best fix to London rental market bug is to move out of London.
PaulRobinson 11y ago
This is an easy problem to solve, and others have pointed out what needs to happen. 1. Provide automatic contract and deposit protection flows into the middle 2. Renters and landlords should both be credit-checked and reviewed by others. If guarantors are necessary, manage that process and credit check them too. 3. Provide check-in/check-out inventories that can be ticked off and checked by all parties. This is 90% of the value letting agents provide. The rest is about better listings themselves: commute times to key locations; what broadband options and speeds are available in that location; the average price and food safety rating of local pubs, cafes, restaurants and takeaways; crime rates; ambulance response times; council tax rates (everybody forgets these and then gets surprised unless they move to LBH&F which has some of the lowest in the country); parking details and costs; night bus routes in the vicinity; voting histories in recent elections; and so on. All of this data is out there, and easy to build tools for and it's the only way to make things better AND get rid of the letting agency model that needs to happen almost urgently. Just providing a veneer over the letting agent? Doomed to fail like so many that have come before it.
- dazbradbury 11y ago
  You mean like OpenRent [1]? OpenRent is the largest agency in the UK. Why? Because it solves these pain points, and does so at scale. There a few steps you've missed out, like giving tenants protection against bad data and rogues (not solved by typical classifieds) - and fulfilling the other legal requirements for landlords (gas safety certs, etc). So whilst perhaps not an easy problem to solve (many have tried and failed), there is a solution already in the market. What is the number 1 tenant complaint? Admin fees. Something also solved by OpenRent, along with removing dead listings and providing a transparent process. [1] - https://www.openrent.co.uk https://www.openrent.co.uk
cinquemb 11y ago
>Movebubble, the startup that wants to make renting in London suck a little less, has picked up $1.6 million in further funding, bringing total investment to just over $3.4 million. >Meanwhile, it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app So I guess the MVP didn't include actually helping people rent a place and getting their perspective on the entire process in a "real world" sense before raising $3.5m? Disclosure: I work for jumpshell (https://www.jumpshell.com/ https://www.jumpshell.com/), where we are launched in Boston and Chicago and people can actually complete the rental process through the platform as well getting your feedback about the entire process so we can better align the incentives of the different market participants.

32 points by romarv 11y ago

ciudilo 11y ago

This is just another front for slimy estate agents.

camillomiller 11y ago
This TechCrunch and the app was presented at a TC disrupt event. You can't expect criticism from them.
nallen84 11y ago
Hi Ciudilo, I'm Nick from Movebubble. I understand why you'd be sceptical about the app simply taking estate agent properties and passing them along to users. But our model is renter first. We don't make any money from agents. We work very hard to make sure we deal with agents that offer a good service for renters. We are also continually monitoring property listings to help ensure they are good quality and of a certain standard.
- ascorbic 11y ago
  So where does the money come from? The tenants?

danpalmer 11y ago

As a software developer, living in London, who was in the process of finding a new flat until 2 days ago, this was not marketed particularly well! I'm right in the middle of the target market and have never heard of this.

nallen84 11y ago
You're right. We're just starting to get our message out there with an increased focus on marketing. You will hopefully see and hear about us more over the coming weeks/months.

ascorbic 11y ago

"it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app" So this is just another aggregator like Rightmove? They're promising real-time availability information, but why would a letting agent update the availability on Movebubble and not Rightmove? What makes it more likely to be real-time than any other aggregator?

k-mcgrady 11y ago

>> "The problem with Rightmove and Zoopla is that they don’t see the renter through to the point of viewing properties – renters have to ring up so many different estate agents (there are over 2,000 in London) that it’s nearly impossible to keep track of bookings and you have to note down all these details elsewhere" This is a problem? I've rented several times in London, including recently. Calling someone and writing a time down in your calendar is not a problem. I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. People have very different expectations. When moving and renting out my old room I've had people think the place was amazing and others think it was terrible. You need to see places yourself, in person. Honestly I think the whole 'renting in London is hard' thing is overblown. I'm working on a pretty low budget and I can find rooms that are good enough for me quite easily. I've also gone through the process of renting an entire apartment (as opposed to just a room) and it's even easier. You call several estate agents, tell them your budget and requirements, and when something comes up they call you. And it's free.

danpalmer 11y ago
Having just finished this process (found a flat 2 days ago), I couldn't disagree more. Finding a flat was essentially a full time job for me for a week. Agents don't respect your time, or your budget, the good stuff isn't on Rightmove because it's gone by the time the agent gets around to adding it, viewings have to be within 48 hours or else the place is gone, etc. It's honestly one of the most stressful things I have to do. (although I don't think this app solves that)
crdoconnor 11y ago
>I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. If there were a public 'issue tracker' for properties that would be very useful. Seeing how quickly and how well Landlords respond to things like a broken heating system or mold would be invaluable when finding a place to live, and having this information made public would also kick some of them into action. Similarly, if renters could have their payment history tracked so landlords know that they pay on time and that previous landlords didn't have any disputes with you, that would be invaluable.

danpalmer 11y ago

This doesn't appear to solve the real issues I have with flat-hunting in London, namely that the agents are terrible people, and that it's impossible to search for the things you want. You can't search for "is not falling apart", "has internet over 2Mbps", "has a supermarket nearby", or "is under a 30 min commute for these 2 offices". These are the things I care about, but no one is solving these as issues.

panamafrank 11y ago
Add to that: Landlord is not a criminal Does not have rats
- elcct 11y ago
  Is not next to a squat Not a council house Was not previously occupied by criminals It doesn't have elderly neighbours No kebab / chicken shops within x metres
  - smcl 11y ago
    I'm curious - why would you not want elderly neighbours?
    - Herald_MJ 11y ago
      Actually, I don't think any of those criteria should definitively rule a place out.
      - smcl 11y ago
        Personally me neither but I can understand the other reasons to some extent
    - elcct 11y ago
      Because some are difficult - for example being nosy, over-sensitive to noise and so on.

SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago

Unless you change the quantity and quality of rental flats available in London, you will not make it suck less; you will just make the existing suck happen faster. There is no shortage of estate agents, in fact it's often said that there are too many. There's no lack of aggregation sites either.

Aidan_Rushby 11y ago
Hi, I agree we cant solve the supply and demand issue around renting a property but we can make it such more transparent, Personal and renter friendly. We are not an estate agent or an aggregation site. Movebubble is here to help and put renters first! we are building products that will enable to renters to have a much more efficient process to rent a property and help them waste less time during this stressful period.
- SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
  Thankfully I'm not in that market now, but I hear things from friends who are. What makes finding a rental flat stressful and a waste of time is the process of chasing down suitable leads and getting a deposit in before anyone else does. Speeding that up for everyone is not going to make it less stressful, is it?
- lmm 11y ago
  What is the concrete difference between you and an estate agent or aggregation site?
  - Aidan_Rushby 11y ago
    Apart from we are 100% focused on looking out for the renters. We do not make money from agents or landlords therefore are here to innovate for the renters. So of the key product feature are... - Renters helping renters to provide real time property availability via sharing data in the app. - Booking and schedule viewings via the app. - Rating agents/properties to help other renters get better experience. - Shortly you will be able to rent the property via the app.

diezge 11y ago

Now if only there were an app to make renting in London cost less...

lgieron 11y ago
It's called 'election'.

thingamarobert 11y ago

I'd feel more excited about something that comes up with a way to completely get rid of agents. In my opinion, services for letting should look at establishing a more transparent and direct operating channel between the tenants and landlords. The paperwork is generally standard. There are deposit protection schemes to protect the tenant's deposit. Landlords can directly get in touch with agencies that do reference checks and property damage checks before and after tenancy. This information can be made available on the app/website for those interested. If an app makes it easy enough to do all this, even for the not so tech-savvy (these are the types of landlords I've come across through agents), this letting agency menace can be gotten rid of altogether. I always thought this was the point of using the internet for property letting. Of course, my opinion is biased from the point of view of someone who has not had such a good experience with letting agents. I know openrent.co.uk is trying to head in that direction. Universities also have their own housing departments that put students in touch with prospective landlords who have registered with them at no cost at all to either party. Maybe employers/corporates could also start doing the same.

notahacker 11y ago
Agents are mostly there to promote the property and conduct viewings. Many landlords don't have the time or inclination to handle that side of things. Software can do a lot of the agent's work, but not all of it for all people. The reference checks are just profit centres for the agents, so they actually want you to overpay for a new check each time.
- lgieron 11y ago
  Also, a lot of the landlors just live outside of London (usually in a cheaper city/country).

Joeboy 11y ago

Is there no way to search for properties on a desktop computer, or am I an idiot?

ommunist 11y ago

Well. As a small landlord in Watford, I'd rather appreciate the service that brings me good tenants. Non smoking (hash included), tolerable to kids next door and caring for a shared garden.

haphazardeous 11y ago

Will the rate stats include the history of rent increases? Or for that matter how the landlord behaved when the previous tenant moved out? Rental market in London is an absolute car crash. Most of us don't even bother doing anything about how we're treated and so the next tenant will have no way of knowing what they'll encounter within or at the end of their tenancy. I hope this app will make some difference but the best fix to London rental market bug is to move out of London.

PaulRobinson 11y ago

This is an easy problem to solve, and others have pointed out what needs to happen. 1. Provide automatic contract and deposit protection flows into the middle 2. Renters and landlords should both be credit-checked and reviewed by others. If guarantors are necessary, manage that process and credit check them too. 3. Provide check-in/check-out inventories that can be ticked off and checked by all parties. This is 90% of the value letting agents provide. The rest is about better listings themselves: commute times to key locations; what broadband options and speeds are available in that location; the average price and food safety rating of local pubs, cafes, restaurants and takeaways; crime rates; ambulance response times; council tax rates (everybody forgets these and then gets surprised unless they move to LBH&F which has some of the lowest in the country); parking details and costs; night bus routes in the vicinity; voting histories in recent elections; and so on. All of this data is out there, and easy to build tools for and it's the only way to make things better AND get rid of the letting agency model that needs to happen almost urgently. Just providing a veneer over the letting agent? Doomed to fail like so many that have come before it.

dazbradbury 11y ago
You mean like OpenRent [1]? OpenRent is the largest agency in the UK. Why? Because it solves these pain points, and does so at scale. There a few steps you've missed out, like giving tenants protection against bad data and rogues (not solved by typical classifieds) - and fulfilling the other legal requirements for landlords (gas safety certs, etc). So whilst perhaps not an easy problem to solve (many have tried and failed), there is a solution already in the market. What is the number 1 tenant complaint? Admin fees. Something also solved by OpenRent, along with removing dead listings and providing a transparent process. [1] - https://www.openrent.co.uk https://www.openrent.co.uk

cinquemb 11y ago

>Movebubble, the startup that wants to make renting in London suck a little less, has picked up $1.6 million in further funding, bringing total investment to just over $3.4 million. >Meanwhile, it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app So I guess the MVP didn't include actually helping people rent a place and getting their perspective on the entire process in a "real world" sense before raising $3.5m? Disclosure: I work for jumpshell (https://www.jumpshell.com/ https://www.jumpshell.com/), where we are launched in Boston and Chicago and people can actually complete the rental process through the platform as well getting your feedback about the entire process so we can better align the incentives of the different market participants.