18 ms·

I am using both iOS and Android phones. Both have good and bad points. I am a hacker and sometimes I need Android's customization features. Most of my colleague

by bbayer 11y ago

I am using both iOS and Android phones. Both have good and bad points. I am a hacker and sometimes I need Android's customization features. Most of my colleagues prefer Android because of it is hacky nature like me. But the reality is my wife cannot use Android. She had to tweak lots options that she don't ever need. Even my 1.5 years old kid can use iOS more effective than Android because it is much more responsive and well designed. UI is much more consistent that 1.5 years old kid can figure out how to do slide to unlock. Apple producing hardware and software together and both of them equally important and should be complementary for success. I think that is why they cannot steal customers from Apple.

mineshaftgap 11y ago
The real problem with Android is security, it cannot just be tacked on as an afterthought.
m0skit0 11y ago
My baby has 11 months and can slide to unlock my wife's HTC Android phone. That point was useless, but yeah, Apple users are usually not hackish nor need all the customizations and power user options Android offers (without talking about rooting and custom ROMs world). This is probably similar to Windows/Mac vs Linux discussion, although still my wife has zero technological skills yet uses Ubuntu on her laptop with zero issues. I still think that Apple products are way overpriced but they still sell because of a perfect marketing hype campaign. It is true that Apple really excels at making the right product from existing ideas, but still overpriced, and IMHO highly overrated. It's just not worth the price. I would go for Android/Linux every time even if I didn't need the flexibility they offer.
- sbuk 11y ago
  Why do you think they are "overpriced"? Is this generally or merely a personal opinion? What is it based on?
  - Yetanfou 11y ago
    On (drumroll....) the fact that the average price-to-own for an iOS device is about double that of an Android device? On the fact that 128GB of memory for an Android device costs (in local - Swedish - currency, but the importance here is the relation between the prices) 400 kr compared to the ~3000 kr price difference between a 16GB and 128GB iPhone 6s? That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device? That those Android devices come equipped with micro-USB ports so they can connect to the-world-and-its-brother while those iOS devices nowadays sport 'lightning' ports which require special (and, need I say, rather expensive) cables? That you can develop software for Android on whatever system you prefer, while developing for iOS means you need to buy into OSX and use Xcode? That apple only offers a limited spectrum of devices, none of which can be termed as 'affordable' compared to the plethora of Android devices?
    - dagw 11y ago
      That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device? I'm sorry but that is simply not true in Sweden. The highest end Android phones costs essentially the same as an iPhone, especially if you are 'buying' one on a contract. Can you buy a pretty damn good Android phone for 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of an iOS phone that will hold their own? Absolutely, but that is hardly the same thing.
      - m0skit0 11y ago
        Highest end Android phones have usually better hardware than iPhones, and also they have their prices bloated just to look "luxury" like the iPhone.
        thedrbrian 11y ago
        Define better. I assume it doesn't involve the word faster or powerful
        11y ago
- zuppy 11y ago
  I don't think you understand why some of us are buying Apple products. I've started with a developer job 15 years ago, I am a pro user (actually I've started programming while I was in the 5th grade, in '94). I still get a console on Mac and I'm using it every day. What I don't want to do, though, is for me to start working for the computer, I want the computer to work for me. After years and years, I've reached a point where I just want the stuff to work. I still do like tech and I'd rather spend my time on investigating new technologies than tinkering with settings. For me it's cheaper to buy Apple and get the free time. There's nothing wrong with other choices, though.
  - ocean3 11y ago
    Does it hold good while updating to new OS on an old Mac book pro. The last 2 OS updates made my mac book very slow. I had to tinker some setting to bring it up some respectable performance. I used to do those on Ubuntu. Now Ubuntu is just install and use mostly. But i couldn't get the touch working properly on Ubuntu else it would have been default OS on mac book pro.
  - m0skit0 11y ago
    I really cannot grasp what you're talking about. I power up my Ubuntu PC at work (I don't know about your Mac, but mine takes like 3-5 seconds to boot, it is 3 years-old and costed less than 1000$) and start working. Right now I have 2 browsers open with ~10 tabs, 3 IntelliJ IDEA instances running, Thunderbird, Skype, 2-3 console instances, at least one VMWare machine running some Windows version, a PostgreSQL GUI client, a couple of SQLite GUI clients, distributed in 4 virtual desktops and using 2 monitors. Everything is running fine and smoothly. And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone. I don't have to abide to whatever someone thought was better for me, because everyone has unique tastes and preferences. But I'm probably missing your point.
    - minikites 11y ago
      >And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone. This is what you don't get. Apple users don't want to have to do this, so they buy something that fits their desires right off the bat with OS X or iOS.
interpol_p 11y ago
On the "slide to unlock" thing: I noticed it became very difficult for young kids to slide to unlock iPhones and iPads after iOS 7 was released. I remember my 10 month old just intuitively sliding the iOS 6 unlock slider. The inset sliding "tray" and obvious button made it extremely clear. When iOS 7 was released it was as if my child suddenly regressed, and it took quite some time for him to get familiar with the new slide to unlock. (Even now that he's much older he sometimes doesn't slide it all the way and the lock screen bounces back into place — because there is no obvious stopping point.) It was such a shame that the old slide-to-unlock was lost in the aesthetic transition. The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen.
- Yetanfou 11y ago
  > The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen. No, that would have been Neonode with the N1, about 2 years before the first iPhone: http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-invalidated-by-top-german-court-1632073/ http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-inva... ...but I tend to think that 'slide to unlock' was 'invented' a bit earlier, probably around the time the Sumerians felt the urge to lock their doors to keep out nosy neighbours and keep in wily camels.
  - interpol_p 11y ago
    That would be referring to this? http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/media/images/61357000/jpg/_61357225_neo.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/media/images/61357000/jpg/_... Sorry but no. That's visually like the iOS 7 implementation which is so hard to use. The exact one I complained about. There's far more to a good UI than just the basic idea — even the requirement of the iPhone's 60 FPS prioritised animation rendering and good finger tracking helped make that digital representation so intuitive. Also the recovery animations (what happens when you don't finish the slide), the ability to slide back and forth with tracking (e.g., in that Neonode screenshot it says "swipe" indicating a single gesture, not a continuous one). And how the screen transitions from completed slide to home screen. These are important details that you have completely overlooked in your claim. I even mentioned the important element of the visual "track" in which the button slides as part of the key features, which is nowhere to be found in the images I saw for Neonode. Apple even used a text-sheen animation in the direction of the slide to visually hint at the direction, that required masking an animated gradient into text back on the original iPhone hardware. Obviously sliding mechanisms existed in physical reality prior to iPhone. I'm not sure why that's relevant as it's part of what makes the digital version intuitive. Apple introduced this interface. The Neonode one is not even in the same universe of usability, design or details.
ocean3 11y ago
My 60 years dad uses Android effectively. Maybe Android was hacky years ago. Material UI is very good.
Yetanfou 11y ago
Errr.... not to rain on your apple-pie-party, but this 'apple is more consistent' and 'apple is much more responsive' and 'apple is (insert expletive)' has not been true for a rather long time. The 'responsive' bit faded out around Android 4.x, the consistency-bit got really upturned - as in iOS lacking consistency - when apple hooked up with the flat UI trend. I have yet to see anyone having problems with unlocking Android devices, whether they use a simulated bar lock ('slide to unlock'), a pattern lock or one of those 'slide to unlock/start_camera/silence/start_browser/...' things. This includes my own children (11 and 4) who are by now used to both Android (at home) and iOS (at school). If you put the two systems next to each other you'll notice they both have their idiosyncrasies. Both are, in general terms, rather easy to use. Android is more flexible - which could be interpreted by some as 'lacking consistency' due to the fact that two Android devices can look quite dissimilar - and has fewer problems with crashing apps. Apple integrates well in an all-apple household but it lacks the freedom of choice which Android offers. As to the supposed inability of the mentioned manufacturers to 'steal [?] customers from apple' I'd say you might be in for a surprise. Customer loyalty is not an absolute, show them enough of a carrot (lower price, better integration with non-apple systems and services) or harass them enough with a stick (itunes! itunes! itunes! apple cloud! no 'unauthorised' repairs! did I mention itunes?) and they'll just hop over to the next track.

by bbayer 11y ago

mineshaftgap 11y ago

The real problem with Android is security, it cannot just be tacked on as an afterthought.

m0skit0 11y ago

My baby has 11 months and can slide to unlock my wife's HTC Android phone. That point was useless, but yeah, Apple users are usually not hackish nor need all the customizations and power user options Android offers (without talking about rooting and custom ROMs world). This is probably similar to Windows/Mac vs Linux discussion, although still my wife has zero technological skills yet uses Ubuntu on her laptop with zero issues. I still think that Apple products are way overpriced but they still sell because of a perfect marketing hype campaign. It is true that Apple really excels at making the right product from existing ideas, but still overpriced, and IMHO highly overrated. It's just not worth the price. I would go for Android/Linux every time even if I didn't need the flexibility they offer.

sbuk 11y ago
Why do you think they are "overpriced"? Is this generally or merely a personal opinion? What is it based on?
- Yetanfou 11y ago
  On (drumroll....) the fact that the average price-to-own for an iOS device is about double that of an Android device? On the fact that 128GB of memory for an Android device costs (in local - Swedish - currency, but the importance here is the relation between the prices) 400 kr compared to the ~3000 kr price difference between a 16GB and 128GB iPhone 6s? That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device? That those Android devices come equipped with micro-USB ports so they can connect to the-world-and-its-brother while those iOS devices nowadays sport 'lightning' ports which require special (and, need I say, rather expensive) cables? That you can develop software for Android on whatever system you prefer, while developing for iOS means you need to buy into OSX and use Xcode? That apple only offers a limited spectrum of devices, none of which can be termed as 'affordable' compared to the plethora of Android devices?
  - dagw 11y ago
    That a 'flagship' Android device will cost anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of the current 'flagship' iOS device? I'm sorry but that is simply not true in Sweden. The highest end Android phones costs essentially the same as an iPhone, especially if you are 'buying' one on a contract. Can you buy a pretty damn good Android phone for 1/3 to 2/3 of the price of an iOS phone that will hold their own? Absolutely, but that is hardly the same thing.
    - m0skit0 11y ago
      Highest end Android phones have usually better hardware than iPhones, and also they have their prices bloated just to look "luxury" like the iPhone.
      - thedrbrian 11y ago
        Define better. I assume it doesn't involve the word faster or powerful
        11y ago
zuppy 11y ago
I don't think you understand why some of us are buying Apple products. I've started with a developer job 15 years ago, I am a pro user (actually I've started programming while I was in the 5th grade, in '94). I still get a console on Mac and I'm using it every day. What I don't want to do, though, is for me to start working for the computer, I want the computer to work for me. After years and years, I've reached a point where I just want the stuff to work. I still do like tech and I'd rather spend my time on investigating new technologies than tinkering with settings. For me it's cheaper to buy Apple and get the free time. There's nothing wrong with other choices, though.
- ocean3 11y ago
  Does it hold good while updating to new OS on an old Mac book pro. The last 2 OS updates made my mac book very slow. I had to tinker some setting to bring it up some respectable performance. I used to do those on Ubuntu. Now Ubuntu is just install and use mostly. But i couldn't get the touch working properly on Ubuntu else it would have been default OS on mac book pro.
- m0skit0 11y ago
  I really cannot grasp what you're talking about. I power up my Ubuntu PC at work (I don't know about your Mac, but mine takes like 3-5 seconds to boot, it is 3 years-old and costed less than 1000$) and start working. Right now I have 2 browsers open with ~10 tabs, 3 IntelliJ IDEA instances running, Thunderbird, Skype, 2-3 console instances, at least one VMWare machine running some Windows version, a PostgreSQL GUI client, a couple of SQLite GUI clients, distributed in 4 virtual desktops and using 2 monitors. Everything is running fine and smoothly. And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone. I don't have to abide to whatever someone thought was better for me, because everyone has unique tastes and preferences. But I'm probably missing your point.
  - minikites 11y ago
    >And last but not least, I can fine tune everything and anything to my liking. I don't like menus on the top taskbar? Gone. I don't like the desktop manager? Gone. This is what you don't get. Apple users don't want to have to do this, so they buy something that fits their desires right off the bat with OS X or iOS.

interpol_p 11y ago

On the "slide to unlock" thing: I noticed it became very difficult for young kids to slide to unlock iPhones and iPads after iOS 7 was released. I remember my 10 month old just intuitively sliding the iOS 6 unlock slider. The inset sliding "tray" and obvious button made it extremely clear. When iOS 7 was released it was as if my child suddenly regressed, and it took quite some time for him to get familiar with the new slide to unlock. (Even now that he's much older he sometimes doesn't slide it all the way and the lock screen bounces back into place — because there is no obvious stopping point.) It was such a shame that the old slide-to-unlock was lost in the aesthetic transition. The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen.

Yetanfou 11y ago
> The original iPhone introduced one of the most immediately obvious user interfaces I'd ever seen. No, that would have been Neonode with the N1, about 2 years before the first iPhone: http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-invalidated-by-top-german-court-1632073/ http://www.geek.com/apple/apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-inva... ...but I tend to think that 'slide to unlock' was 'invented' a bit earlier, probably around the time the Sumerians felt the urge to lock their doors to keep out nosy neighbours and keep in wily camels.
- interpol_p 11y ago
  That would be referring to this? http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/media/images/61357000/jpg/_61357225_neo.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/media/images/61357000/jpg/_... Sorry but no. That's visually like the iOS 7 implementation which is so hard to use. The exact one I complained about. There's far more to a good UI than just the basic idea — even the requirement of the iPhone's 60 FPS prioritised animation rendering and good finger tracking helped make that digital representation so intuitive. Also the recovery animations (what happens when you don't finish the slide), the ability to slide back and forth with tracking (e.g., in that Neonode screenshot it says "swipe" indicating a single gesture, not a continuous one). And how the screen transitions from completed slide to home screen. These are important details that you have completely overlooked in your claim. I even mentioned the important element of the visual "track" in which the button slides as part of the key features, which is nowhere to be found in the images I saw for Neonode. Apple even used a text-sheen animation in the direction of the slide to visually hint at the direction, that required masking an animated gradient into text back on the original iPhone hardware. Obviously sliding mechanisms existed in physical reality prior to iPhone. I'm not sure why that's relevant as it's part of what makes the digital version intuitive. Apple introduced this interface. The Neonode one is not even in the same universe of usability, design or details.

ocean3 11y ago

My 60 years dad uses Android effectively. Maybe Android was hacky years ago. Material UI is very good.

Yetanfou 11y ago

Errr.... not to rain on your apple-pie-party, but this 'apple is more consistent' and 'apple is much more responsive' and 'apple is (insert expletive)' has not been true for a rather long time. The 'responsive' bit faded out around Android 4.x, the consistency-bit got really upturned - as in iOS lacking consistency - when apple hooked up with the flat UI trend. I have yet to see anyone having problems with unlocking Android devices, whether they use a simulated bar lock ('slide to unlock'), a pattern lock or one of those 'slide to unlock/start_camera/silence/start_browser/...' things. This includes my own children (11 and 4) who are by now used to both Android (at home) and iOS (at school). If you put the two systems next to each other you'll notice they both have their idiosyncrasies. Both are, in general terms, rather easy to use. Android is more flexible - which could be interpreted by some as 'lacking consistency' due to the fact that two Android devices can look quite dissimilar - and has fewer problems with crashing apps. Apple integrates well in an all-apple household but it lacks the freedom of choice which Android offers. As to the supposed inability of the mentioned manufacturers to 'steal [?] customers from apple' I'd say you might be in for a surprise. Customer loyalty is not an absolute, show them enough of a carrot (lower price, better integration with non-apple systems and services) or harass them enough with a stick (itunes! itunes! itunes! apple cloud! no 'unauthorised' repairs! did I mention itunes?) and they'll just hop over to the next track.