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I've read a log of the inside wikimedia links here, and I'm confused about all the talk of gnashing of teeth and rending of cloth. This is controversial because

I've read a log of the inside wikimedia links here, and I'm confused about all the talk of gnashing of teeth and rending of cloth. This is controversial because some want to pay down technical debt rather than have a small team do knowledge graph search? Okay...

chris_wot 11y ago
It's not a small team compared to the size if the organisation. And you mischaracterise the situation: this is a problem with engagement, transparency and openness.
- jonathankoren 11y ago
  Yeah the relative merits of the initiative seem to be besides the point. If you have a toxic environment, even a proposal to cure all disease for everyone for free will attract derision. It's hard to get worked up over some other team's morale. If its such a crappy place, just quit. The could probably literally go across the street and get a new job. I don't really care. It's all way too inside baseball for me.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    You cared enough to comment. This wasn't just a place of work for me, I volunteered my time because I believed in what they were doing. You might never have contributed in a significant fashion to Wikipedia and other WMF projects, but I did. Sure, I didn't get employed, but then again I know a lot of people I met and have continued to be friends with who are still deeply involved. You may not care about your friends' morale, and you might think it's easy for people to "go across the street and get a new job", but then you seem like a pretty thoughtless person. Of course, you've not understood at all what the larger issues are. You must have a bit of a comprehension issue, because I supplied quite a few links that you apparently read that explained the underlying problems. Just remember though: you don't care :-)
    - jonathankoren 11y ago
      0) Stop with the personal attacks. It's rather unbecoming, and I don't appreciate it. 1) Being genuinely confused about what the big deal isn't the same thing as caring. It's asking for confirmation of a conclusion. 2) If you're in a situation where you're unhappy, then you have a responsibility to make yourself happy. Staying around in a crappy situation and whining about doesn't help, and neither does insulting people. 3) Wikimedia is in San Francisco. If I had to take a guess, I would say there was a literally a hundred other tech organizations in that city alone, including nonprofit organizations with a societal purpose. 18F comes to mind. Again, See 2.
      - chris_wot 11y ago
        0) you don't seem to realise how you come across 1) you literally wrote "I don't really care". 2) they aren't whining. Saying so is pretty much a personal attack. It's certainly insulting. I don't appreciate it, and I'd say neither do they. Funny how that works both ways. But interestingly enough, as has been pointed out already - people ARE leaving in droves. I'm no longer involved in Wikipedia, but I can still be unhappy with the direction they are taking. 3) if you think that just leaving a non-profit you have emotionally invested in is an easy decision, then you really haven't thought things through. If you think it's elementary to just step out of one job and into another, that's also thoughtless.

chris_wot 11y ago

It's not a small team compared to the size if the organisation. And you mischaracterise the situation: this is a problem with engagement, transparency and openness.

jonathankoren 11y ago
Yeah the relative merits of the initiative seem to be besides the point. If you have a toxic environment, even a proposal to cure all disease for everyone for free will attract derision. It's hard to get worked up over some other team's morale. If its such a crappy place, just quit. The could probably literally go across the street and get a new job. I don't really care. It's all way too inside baseball for me.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  You cared enough to comment. This wasn't just a place of work for me, I volunteered my time because I believed in what they were doing. You might never have contributed in a significant fashion to Wikipedia and other WMF projects, but I did. Sure, I didn't get employed, but then again I know a lot of people I met and have continued to be friends with who are still deeply involved. You may not care about your friends' morale, and you might think it's easy for people to "go across the street and get a new job", but then you seem like a pretty thoughtless person. Of course, you've not understood at all what the larger issues are. You must have a bit of a comprehension issue, because I supplied quite a few links that you apparently read that explained the underlying problems. Just remember though: you don't care :-)
  - jonathankoren 11y ago
    0) Stop with the personal attacks. It's rather unbecoming, and I don't appreciate it. 1) Being genuinely confused about what the big deal isn't the same thing as caring. It's asking for confirmation of a conclusion. 2) If you're in a situation where you're unhappy, then you have a responsibility to make yourself happy. Staying around in a crappy situation and whining about doesn't help, and neither does insulting people. 3) Wikimedia is in San Francisco. If I had to take a guess, I would say there was a literally a hundred other tech organizations in that city alone, including nonprofit organizations with a societal purpose. 18F comes to mind. Again, See 2.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      0) you don't seem to realise how you come across 1) you literally wrote "I don't really care". 2) they aren't whining. Saying so is pretty much a personal attack. It's certainly insulting. I don't appreciate it, and I'd say neither do they. Funny how that works both ways. But interestingly enough, as has been pointed out already - people ARE leaving in droves. I'm no longer involved in Wikipedia, but I can still be unhappy with the direction they are taking. 3) if you think that just leaving a non-profit you have emotionally invested in is an easy decision, then you really haven't thought things through. If you think it's elementary to just step out of one job and into another, that's also thoughtless.