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As a PhD in spplied math, I must say I concur wholeheartedly with the author. The true value of a PhD in a quantitative field is less about specific domain know

As a PhD in spplied math, I must say I concur wholeheartedly with the author. The true value of a PhD in a quantitative field is less about specific domain knowledge, and more in the set of general problem solving skills you pick up.

forrestthewoods 11y ago
This raises an interesting question. Is the PhD process the best way to acquire those general problem solving skills? Or is there a better way to learn them?
- Silhouette 11y ago
  From my experience of both academia and life in general, I'd say traditional tertiary education -- meaning lectures and research work from undergraduate upwards in a university setting -- is actually quite a poor way to learn anything. I'd say the ideal way to develop knowledge, understanding and skill in almost any field is a combination of systematic practice and receiving personalised guidance and training from someone who thoroughly understands the field itself to at least the level you are trying to reach and is able to share that understanding effectively based on your current level of understanding. Sadly, this is usually hopelessly unrealistic, because there are nowhere near enough suitable trainers around to give everyone close to 1:1 training in that format. But the further we drift from it, the more impersonal and generic training becomes, the more isolated individual practice becomes, the less immediate and detailed feedback becomes, the less effective the training regime as a whole will be. Given that neither undergraduate-style mass lectures nor postgraduate-style research are particularly efficient at conveying useful information, guiding practice, or promoting rapid and actionable feedback, I personally don't rate either particularly highly on an idealised scale. Perhaps a more practically useful question would be whether there are ways to improve university-level training that are realistic given the time and money constraints and, beyond a certain point, the lack of many if any people who actually are more knowledgeable or skillful in increasingly specialised fields than the research student who is dedicated to exploring them.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    Both the CS and maths undergrad courses at my uni were structured with voluntary lectures coupled with compulsory group study with 10-15 students led by a post-grad TA for many of the larger courses. I skipped most of the lectures, and focused on the group study, and it was far more rewarding.
    - Silhouette 11y ago
      That sounds like an all-too-familiar story. On the subject of lectures, it does slightly surprise me that in 2016 we still have researchers with neither much interest in teaching nor the presentation skills to do it well being asked/compelled to deliver undergraduate lecture courses at individual universities. You'd think with the easy access to video presentations and supporting materials now offered by the Internet, universities might have collaborated by now to build the personal elements of tuition around video lectures given by academics who do have the interest and are gifted presenters. On the other hand, I suppose that would expose how little personal attention many students actually receive in return for the fees and debts they take on, and universities don't want to encourage potential students to question how much real value they provide. Surely it would be more reliable and efficient as an education method if they focused their efforts on small group tuition and individual guidance, though.
- zzleeper 11y ago
  I was thinking the same thing.. 5-7 years is an insane amount of time (and money) to spend just to get better general problem solving skills.
- brohee 11y ago
  Well the PhD process lets you experience failure without putting much more than your self esteem in danger...
- lmm 11y ago
  An interesting question indeed, but too broad to make much progress on. If you have ideas for a) an incremental change to the PhD process that would improve this or b) an alternative that might work better then please do pursue them. (Remember that the credential aspect is important as well as the actual learning).
- hnarayanan 11y ago
  In general (and in my opinion), this is not the best way to acquire such skills. But it is a wonderful way to spend 5–7 years in a relatively stress-free environment while you can exercise your brain, explore different avenues, and pick up some had skills and stick–to–itiveness along the way.

forrestthewoods 11y ago

This raises an interesting question. Is the PhD process the best way to acquire those general problem solving skills? Or is there a better way to learn them?

Silhouette 11y ago
From my experience of both academia and life in general, I'd say traditional tertiary education -- meaning lectures and research work from undergraduate upwards in a university setting -- is actually quite a poor way to learn anything. I'd say the ideal way to develop knowledge, understanding and skill in almost any field is a combination of systematic practice and receiving personalised guidance and training from someone who thoroughly understands the field itself to at least the level you are trying to reach and is able to share that understanding effectively based on your current level of understanding. Sadly, this is usually hopelessly unrealistic, because there are nowhere near enough suitable trainers around to give everyone close to 1:1 training in that format. But the further we drift from it, the more impersonal and generic training becomes, the more isolated individual practice becomes, the less immediate and detailed feedback becomes, the less effective the training regime as a whole will be. Given that neither undergraduate-style mass lectures nor postgraduate-style research are particularly efficient at conveying useful information, guiding practice, or promoting rapid and actionable feedback, I personally don't rate either particularly highly on an idealised scale. Perhaps a more practically useful question would be whether there are ways to improve university-level training that are realistic given the time and money constraints and, beyond a certain point, the lack of many if any people who actually are more knowledgeable or skillful in increasingly specialised fields than the research student who is dedicated to exploring them.
- vidarh 11y ago
  Both the CS and maths undergrad courses at my uni were structured with voluntary lectures coupled with compulsory group study with 10-15 students led by a post-grad TA for many of the larger courses. I skipped most of the lectures, and focused on the group study, and it was far more rewarding.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    That sounds like an all-too-familiar story. On the subject of lectures, it does slightly surprise me that in 2016 we still have researchers with neither much interest in teaching nor the presentation skills to do it well being asked/compelled to deliver undergraduate lecture courses at individual universities. You'd think with the easy access to video presentations and supporting materials now offered by the Internet, universities might have collaborated by now to build the personal elements of tuition around video lectures given by academics who do have the interest and are gifted presenters. On the other hand, I suppose that would expose how little personal attention many students actually receive in return for the fees and debts they take on, and universities don't want to encourage potential students to question how much real value they provide. Surely it would be more reliable and efficient as an education method if they focused their efforts on small group tuition and individual guidance, though.
zzleeper 11y ago
I was thinking the same thing.. 5-7 years is an insane amount of time (and money) to spend just to get better general problem solving skills.
brohee 11y ago
Well the PhD process lets you experience failure without putting much more than your self esteem in danger...
lmm 11y ago
An interesting question indeed, but too broad to make much progress on. If you have ideas for a) an incremental change to the PhD process that would improve this or b) an alternative that might work better then please do pursue them. (Remember that the credential aspect is important as well as the actual learning).
hnarayanan 11y ago
In general (and in my opinion), this is not the best way to acquire such skills. But it is a wonderful way to spend 5–7 years in a relatively stress-free environment while you can exercise your brain, explore different avenues, and pick up some had skills and stick–to–itiveness along the way.