5 ms·

TPP is obscured by a wall of confusion and disinformation. As a tax payer of the United States (or any other country involved), what do you think the takeaway i

by nefitty 11y ago

TPP is obscured by a wall of confusion and disinformation. As a tax payer of the United States (or any other country involved), what do you think the takeaway is? As in, how should I, a concerned citizen, approach this topic at the bar or the dinner table?

Kristine1975 11y ago
Ignore it. You can't change the outcome anyway :-|
- work-on-828 11y ago
  Just like a popular uproar couldn't prevent SOPA from passing.
Umn44 11y ago
>a concerned citizen, approach this topic at the bar or the dinner table? One argument is : Tell them how their software (games, anything with DRM) spies on their kids and can harm them for life (insurance, job prospects, etc). Present it like this: Companies determine kid has X,y, z trait, their names (just by being connected they can do this with math and correlating other consumer data) then that kid is filtered out of companies/schools that he may want to apply to. Note that universities/corporations can pay to use services to filter out applications using analytics. AKA your equality of opportunity disappears when they can know everything about you and screen you out. Corporations buy and sell information it's in things like EULA's on videogames that they can collect and infer all sorts of things by how much time you spend on the internet and also track your location. Another argument : Make it about repairing everyday things, and how IP law is making us wasteful/harming the environment by forcing "waste" model of consumption. Basically corporations are trying to undermine our everyday rights by using intellectual property and copyright laws... to con us out of our right to own products and have them made fairly because we're 100's of miles away from corporations we can't 'storm the gate'. Say old ages you want to fix an engine or repair the car yourself, there will be all these bullshit IP laws in the way. Check out the "DRM" coffee maker. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140227/06521826371/keurig-will-use-drm-new-coffee-maker-to-lock-out-refill-market.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140227/06521826371/keuri... Basically they want us to rent everything perpetually never own it... I'd love to make a meme out of "You wouldn't repair your engine would you? That would infringe someones intellectual(or insultingly imagiinary) property". You can think of better examples but they are radically all trying to undermine our ability to own and repair stuff by controlling our governments laws. The best way to fight back is to find ways to humor and disparage it and at the same time point out the fraud, and find easy examples effect peoples lives, purposely push the envelope and imagine the worst as well because people aren't rational, so push their buttons and find whatever works. Note this racket/fraud has been going on for over 100 years now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/media/File:Copyright_term.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/...
wfo 11y ago
It's a question about the right to self-determination, which is not technical or confusing. It expands and enshrines the right of corporate attorneys to take countries to court and modify their laws to suit corporate interests. If the people of the US want to pass a law, should the constitution and government of the US decide if it sticks? Or a group of corporate lawyers at a multinational corporation in a third party business-friendly kangaroo court? If your answer is the first one, then the TPP is morally unacceptable, full stop, no more discussion needed.
- JBReefer 11y ago
  That may be your opinion, but I do think we should have a discussion around something as important and complicated as the TPP. All I've heard so far is Jingoism, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

by nefitty 11y ago

Kristine1975 11y ago

Ignore it. You can't change the outcome anyway :-|

work-on-828 11y ago
Just like a popular uproar couldn't prevent SOPA from passing.

Umn44 11y ago

>a concerned citizen, approach this topic at the bar or the dinner table? One argument is : Tell them how their software (games, anything with DRM) spies on their kids and can harm them for life (insurance, job prospects, etc). Present it like this: Companies determine kid has X,y, z trait, their names (just by being connected they can do this with math and correlating other consumer data) then that kid is filtered out of companies/schools that he may want to apply to. Note that universities/corporations can pay to use services to filter out applications using analytics. AKA your equality of opportunity disappears when they can know everything about you and screen you out. Corporations buy and sell information it's in things like EULA's on videogames that they can collect and infer all sorts of things by how much time you spend on the internet and also track your location. Another argument : Make it about repairing everyday things, and how IP law is making us wasteful/harming the environment by forcing "waste" model of consumption. Basically corporations are trying to undermine our everyday rights by using intellectual property and copyright laws... to con us out of our right to own products and have them made fairly because we're 100's of miles away from corporations we can't 'storm the gate'. Say old ages you want to fix an engine or repair the car yourself, there will be all these bullshit IP laws in the way. Check out the "DRM" coffee maker. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140227/06521826371/keurig-will-use-drm-new-coffee-maker-to-lock-out-refill-market.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140227/06521826371/keuri... Basically they want us to rent everything perpetually never own it... I'd love to make a meme out of "You wouldn't repair your engine would you? That would infringe someones intellectual(or insultingly imagiinary) property". You can think of better examples but they are radically all trying to undermine our ability to own and repair stuff by controlling our governments laws. The best way to fight back is to find ways to humor and disparage it and at the same time point out the fraud, and find easy examples effect peoples lives, purposely push the envelope and imagine the worst as well because people aren't rational, so push their buttons and find whatever works. Note this racket/fraud has been going on for over 100 years now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/media/File:Copyright_term.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/...

wfo 11y ago

It's a question about the right to self-determination, which is not technical or confusing. It expands and enshrines the right of corporate attorneys to take countries to court and modify their laws to suit corporate interests. If the people of the US want to pass a law, should the constitution and government of the US decide if it sticks? Or a group of corporate lawyers at a multinational corporation in a third party business-friendly kangaroo court? If your answer is the first one, then the TPP is morally unacceptable, full stop, no more discussion needed.

JBReefer 11y ago
That may be your opinion, but I do think we should have a discussion around something as important and complicated as the TPP. All I've heard so far is Jingoism, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.