6 ms·

There was nothing wrong with your original phrasing.

coldtea 11y ago
I didn't mean it was wrong with regards to syntax or grammar. Just that it was a slightly strange thing to say -- seeing as existentialism is concerned with the emptiness, horrors and anxieties of being alive (and doubly so in Kafka), and "favorite" implies something one enjoys.
- mirimir 11y ago
  Well, that's just how life is. Empty and meaningless. Except for whatever meaning we create. So I find Kafka both reassuring and amusing. No matter how bad things are, I can at least console myself that I haven't become a cockroach ;)
- gkya 11y ago
  "existentialism is concerned with the emptiness, horrors and anxieties of being alive" You're mistaken to think so about existantialism. I suggest you read "Existentialism is a Humanism [1]", which is a document I've studied very recently and one that I'll study again, and one has been influential to me. Existantialism is an idea based on the hypothesis that man exists without a purpose, without a creator and without predefined values, i.e. he comes to exist before his essence, that which he is responsible of and confined to defining and creating by himself; and that he "in fashioning himself, fashions man", i.e. with his decisions, he demonstrates what he thinks is apt for all the humanity. The linked text explains it all better than my humble summary. [1] https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exis...
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Yeah, read it, along with other works by Sartre, Camus, all the way down to Kierkergaard and earlier examples of this line of thinking (note: European and older, so those works were like Star Wars movies to us at the time, in the sense that everybody read them, not just students dressed in black). The "Existentialism is a Humanism" presents a more "heroic" outlook of the matter, associated with Sartre's engagement with politics at the time. Even so it deals with anxiety, lack of values, etc. That "in fashioning himself, fashions man" only works as an encouragement if you also believe that people everywhere in large quantities are fashioning the world for the better (as Sartre did with regards to communism). But for the more bleak outlook that is quite more common, you can read Sartre's own "Nausea" to see how the ideas as described in "E.I.A.H" can play into everyday life. Even the title of the novel ("sea sickness" -- meant about the absurdity of life, is telling). The angst/anxiety etc. is more often than not present without any conveniently comforting heroic ideas of self-fashioning, like in the end of the book, or in E.I.A.H.
    - mirimir 11y ago
      I suspect that angst stems largely from loss of faith. Whether it's faith in some religion, or faith in some ideology. I rejected faith very early, and so lack of inherent meaning doesn't occur as bleak. It's just what's so. And it's arguably all about selection.
- dawnbreez 11y ago
  As others have pointed out, Existentialism is not "life is meaningless, full stop." Rather, it is "life is meaningless, just as a canvas is blank." Your life starts with no meaning, just like a canvas starts blank; but because the canvas begins as a field of white, the artist need not worry about underlying meaning when he makes his masterpiece.
  - mirimir 11y ago
    Great image! But that freedom is troubling for many. No truth to proclaim. Too much uncertainty.
    - dawnbreez 11y ago
      That's a problem in and of itself--people don't like the unknown, which hurts them, because EVERYTHING is unknown to some degree. In fact, the very roots of Logic, that sword which so many people claim will break Religion's gordian knot, are uncertain. All logic stems from the idea that you can say "if(a) then b()". The only svidence that this works is anecdotal. There's a lot of it, but that's all it is, and all it takes is one flying pig to bring it all down. The solution, for some, is fundamentalism: "(Logic|Religion|*) is true because it says so." Others put their faith in it even though they know it's not proven. G.K. Chesterton mentions this a lot (he's a fun read, if a bit rambly). TL;DR: Not knowing is a whole nother ball of wax, and is a bigger ball of wax than you think.
- kafkaesque 11y ago
  You've read Kafka. Great. Now read Wittgenstein.
mirimir 11y ago
Well, my wife is actually my favorite Existentialist ;)

I didn't mean it was wrong with regards to syntax or grammar. Just that it was a slightly strange thing to say -- seeing as existentialism is concerned with the emptiness, horrors and anxieties of being alive (and doubly so in Kafka), and "favorite" implies something one enjoys.

mirimir 11y ago
Well, that's just how life is. Empty and meaningless. Except for whatever meaning we create. So I find Kafka both reassuring and amusing. No matter how bad things are, I can at least console myself that I haven't become a cockroach ;)
gkya 11y ago
"existentialism is concerned with the emptiness, horrors and anxieties of being alive" You're mistaken to think so about existantialism. I suggest you read "Existentialism is a Humanism [1]", which is a document I've studied very recently and one that I'll study again, and one has been influential to me. Existantialism is an idea based on the hypothesis that man exists without a purpose, without a creator and without predefined values, i.e. he comes to exist before his essence, that which he is responsible of and confined to defining and creating by himself; and that he "in fashioning himself, fashions man", i.e. with his decisions, he demonstrates what he thinks is apt for all the humanity. The linked text explains it all better than my humble summary. [1] https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exis...
- coldtea 11y ago
  Yeah, read it, along with other works by Sartre, Camus, all the way down to Kierkergaard and earlier examples of this line of thinking (note: European and older, so those works were like Star Wars movies to us at the time, in the sense that everybody read them, not just students dressed in black). The "Existentialism is a Humanism" presents a more "heroic" outlook of the matter, associated with Sartre's engagement with politics at the time. Even so it deals with anxiety, lack of values, etc. That "in fashioning himself, fashions man" only works as an encouragement if you also believe that people everywhere in large quantities are fashioning the world for the better (as Sartre did with regards to communism). But for the more bleak outlook that is quite more common, you can read Sartre's own "Nausea" to see how the ideas as described in "E.I.A.H" can play into everyday life. Even the title of the novel ("sea sickness" -- meant about the absurdity of life, is telling). The angst/anxiety etc. is more often than not present without any conveniently comforting heroic ideas of self-fashioning, like in the end of the book, or in E.I.A.H.
  - mirimir 11y ago
    I suspect that angst stems largely from loss of faith. Whether it's faith in some religion, or faith in some ideology. I rejected faith very early, and so lack of inherent meaning doesn't occur as bleak. It's just what's so. And it's arguably all about selection.
dawnbreez 11y ago
As others have pointed out, Existentialism is not "life is meaningless, full stop." Rather, it is "life is meaningless, just as a canvas is blank." Your life starts with no meaning, just like a canvas starts blank; but because the canvas begins as a field of white, the artist need not worry about underlying meaning when he makes his masterpiece.
- mirimir 11y ago
  Great image! But that freedom is troubling for many. No truth to proclaim. Too much uncertainty.
  - dawnbreez 11y ago
    That's a problem in and of itself--people don't like the unknown, which hurts them, because EVERYTHING is unknown to some degree. In fact, the very roots of Logic, that sword which so many people claim will break Religion's gordian knot, are uncertain. All logic stems from the idea that you can say "if(a) then b()". The only svidence that this works is anecdotal. There's a lot of it, but that's all it is, and all it takes is one flying pig to bring it all down. The solution, for some, is fundamentalism: "(Logic|Religion|*) is true because it says so." Others put their faith in it even though they know it's not proven. G.K. Chesterton mentions this a lot (he's a fun read, if a bit rambly). TL;DR: Not knowing is a whole nother ball of wax, and is a bigger ball of wax than you think.
kafkaesque 11y ago
You've read Kafka. Great. Now read Wittgenstein.

mirimir 11y ago

Well, my wife is actually my favorite Existentialist ;)