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See this, in my opinion is a perfect example of the engineer entitlement the parent mentioned. These guys probably have a decent idea and the ability to execute

See this, in my opinion is a perfect example of the engineer entitlement the parent mentioned. These guys probably have a decent idea and the ability to execute on it. Their background probably enables them to get the required capital, sell/market the product and hire engineers to build it. The majority of engineers probably don't have that entrepreneurial/business ability. Those guys obviously don't have the knowledge required to build the product but they do have the skills required to get the resources to hire people who can. You don't make it clear in your comment if that equity doesn't come with a salary (that changes things obviously) but if they're paying you a salary to do a job and you expect lots of equity because you think you are so important you can't be replaced, you're probably very wrong.

AYBABTME 11y ago
It's not entitlement, it's gauging what's your bargaining position versus what the other side tries to convince you it is. Obviously both a business person and an engineer will have value in a venture. There's nothing wrong with both types negotiating and asking for their fair share.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  I completely agree regarding negotiation. But it's hard not to see these points from the parent as seeming entitled or as looking down on business types because they're not as good as, or important as, you. "a pair of frat boy types who had business school degrees." "They pitch their idea as if it were a company, but all they have are some powerpoint and a few phone calls under their belt." "They don't understand when I laugh at them..."
  - abawany 11y ago
    He is describing his perceptions and experiences as far as I can tell.
crpatino 11y ago
With due respect, ideas are a dime a dozen; and if this people had the "ability to execute on it", they would not need the engineers to do just that, would they? I do not want to disregard anyone's skills, technical of business. Even if the GP is right that those guys where frat boys, they probably had valuable connections to bring into the table. But it is not fair that biz types hide behing the "salary" argument to shortchange engineers. They are not just bringing early employees, they were looking for their CTO, for goodness sake! I am ok with not offering an "equal partners" deal, but it has to be partners. IF they are so wonderful business types, they why they do not get a Series A round without a product and then hire an employee CTO with a matching salary? I will answer you why, and it is the same reason why engineers should not demand millionaire salaries. It is because your contribution's worth zero if it is not leveraged by the contribution of the other partner.

AYBABTME 11y ago

It's not entitlement, it's gauging what's your bargaining position versus what the other side tries to convince you it is. Obviously both a business person and an engineer will have value in a venture. There's nothing wrong with both types negotiating and asking for their fair share.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
I completely agree regarding negotiation. But it's hard not to see these points from the parent as seeming entitled or as looking down on business types because they're not as good as, or important as, you. "a pair of frat boy types who had business school degrees." "They pitch their idea as if it were a company, but all they have are some powerpoint and a few phone calls under their belt." "They don't understand when I laugh at them..."
- abawany 11y ago
  He is describing his perceptions and experiences as far as I can tell.

crpatino 11y ago

With due respect, ideas are a dime a dozen; and if this people had the "ability to execute on it", they would not need the engineers to do just that, would they? I do not want to disregard anyone's skills, technical of business. Even if the GP is right that those guys where frat boys, they probably had valuable connections to bring into the table. But it is not fair that biz types hide behing the "salary" argument to shortchange engineers. They are not just bringing early employees, they were looking for their CTO, for goodness sake! I am ok with not offering an "equal partners" deal, but it has to be partners. IF they are so wonderful business types, they why they do not get a Series A round without a product and then hire an employee CTO with a matching salary? I will answer you why, and it is the same reason why engineers should not demand millionaire salaries. It is because your contribution's worth zero if it is not leveraged by the contribution of the other partner.