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Why is it wrong to say that I own what I make?

Certhas 11y ago
Because you didn't "make" it. You didn't start from what nature gave you sat down one day and created value. You drove on public roads, used your public education, enjoyed the safety of the police while doing so, breathed air that's clean due to enforced regulations, etc... What value you create you create in the context of society. Your company keeps part of the value you create. So does the state. They have that leverage over you because you could not create it without them. Their legitimization is based on contracts for companies, and on democracy in the latter. This should really all go without saying.
- barney54 11y ago
  Taking things from people without their consent is immoral. It's that simple. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some taxes, but understand that taxes are immoral.
  - ThomPete 11y ago
    Taxes are neither moral or immoral, thats how simple it is. There is no philosophical or moral or ethical argument for claiming that it is either of those. You start with the wrong premise. Namely that it's taking things from people without their consent. But even if we are to start there, the taxes are being taken before they get them so not even strictly speaking is it immoral (or moral). And the actual salary you get is different based on which country you live in, what part of the country you live in and so on. So your argument is non existing really.
- barney54 11y ago
  Also, just because a majority of people vote to take things from you does not make it moral. That means that you can justify slavery with a majority vote.
  - ThomPete 11y ago
    This has nothing t do with voting. You don't need democracy to tax people. You starting point, like that of the libertarians and anarcho-capitalists is based on an idea that you own what you produce but since you don't own what nature produces this line of reasoning quickly breaks down. You don't own the nature and so whatever you use from it isn't your moral right to keep.

Because you didn't "make" it. You didn't start from what nature gave you sat down one day and created value. You drove on public roads, used your public education, enjoyed the safety of the police while doing so, breathed air that's clean due to enforced regulations, etc... What value you create you create in the context of society. Your company keeps part of the value you create. So does the state. They have that leverage over you because you could not create it without them. Their legitimization is based on contracts for companies, and on democracy in the latter. This should really all go without saying.

barney54 11y ago
Taking things from people without their consent is immoral. It's that simple. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some taxes, but understand that taxes are immoral.
- ThomPete 11y ago
  Taxes are neither moral or immoral, thats how simple it is. There is no philosophical or moral or ethical argument for claiming that it is either of those. You start with the wrong premise. Namely that it's taking things from people without their consent. But even if we are to start there, the taxes are being taken before they get them so not even strictly speaking is it immoral (or moral). And the actual salary you get is different based on which country you live in, what part of the country you live in and so on. So your argument is non existing really.
barney54 11y ago
Also, just because a majority of people vote to take things from you does not make it moral. That means that you can justify slavery with a majority vote.
- ThomPete 11y ago
  This has nothing t do with voting. You don't need democracy to tax people. You starting point, like that of the libertarians and anarcho-capitalists is based on an idea that you own what you produce but since you don't own what nature produces this line of reasoning quickly breaks down. You don't own the nature and so whatever you use from it isn't your moral right to keep.