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The risk of lung/mouth cancer and general other physical effects far outweight the nervous system side effects (which are arguable, i never thought of smoking a

The risk of lung/mouth cancer and general other physical effects far outweight the nervous system side effects (which are arguable, i never thought of smoking as a possible factor in depression).

tomhoward 11y ago
You're expressing opinions ("arguable") when hard evidence is readily available. Mouth and lung cancers and cardiovascular disease get all the headlines due to their mortality rates and hideous pictures. But there's a whole spectrum of harm that exists well before you get to those extremes, and the evidence is easily found if you care to search for it. See this 1993 study "Influence of cigarette smoking on human autonomic function" [1] In habitual smokers, smoking acutely reduces baseline levels of vagal-cardiac nerve activity and completely resets vagally mediated arterial baroreceptor-cardiac reflex responses. Smoking also reduces muscle sympathetic nerve activity but augments increases of sympathetic activity triggered by brief arterial pressure reductions. This pattern of autonomic changes is likely to influence smokers' responses to acute arterial pressure reductions importantly. Also, "Endocrine Effects of Tobacco Smoking" [2] Over many years a large number of studies have demonstrated that exposure to cigarette smoke produces marked neuroendocrine changes. The effects of nicotine on the hypothalamicpituitary axis (HPA) were first studied by Balfour (1989), who showed that nicotine was a potent activator of the HPA. The basic mechanism of action of nicotine on these systems appears to be contingent on its ability to mimic the effects of acetylcholine at selected central nicotinic acetylcholinergic receptors (Rosecransland & Karin, 1998). There are at least three types of nicotine binding sites in the hypothalamus (Fuxe et al., 1989). Nicotine stimulates neuronal firing directly by acting at the binding sites or indirectly by causing the release of acetylcholine or monoaminergic neurotransmitters (such as dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin) (Pickworth & Fant, 1998). Nicotine can thus affect HPA function through a variety of paths (Rosecransland & Karin, 1998). FYI it's often been observed that dysfunction of the HPA axis is a factor in depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue, hypothyroidism and other debilitating illnesses. Eg... One of the most enduring and replicated findings in biological psychiatry is activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in a subset of patients with major depressive disorder. This review will discuss some of these findings and their pertinence to the assessment and treatment of depressed patients. [3] [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8339419/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8339419/ [2] http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496223_2 http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496223_2 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC181180/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC181180/
- mapt 11y ago
  You're arguing inferred, postulated, or plausible effects from the chemical nicotine specifically in a combustion process that releases thousands of different varieties of volatile chemicals into the lungs and bloodstream, including things like chemical asphyxiants. That's a hell of a confounder to be observing any effect beneath whatsoever. To illustrate: "Cocaine-coated axes are shown to cause increased adrenaline response when administered to the subject's ribcage at a high rate of speed. This makes sense, because we postulate cocaine to be a stimulant. [uncoated axes not tested]"
  - tomhoward 11y ago
    You're arguing inferred, postulated, or plausible effects from the chemical nicotine specifically in a combustion process that releases thousands of different varieties of volatile chemicals... Not really, but I get what you're saying. I can accept that e-cigs are likely vastly less harmful than smoked tobacco cigarettes. It will take a lot of time and rigorous research to establish what the difference really is, but I would expect it to be profound. But my point stands that there is likely not any way to get all the "benefits" of smoking without any of the harms. If it were just about nicotine, I'd expect to see everyone stop smoking and switch to nicotine patches or gum. Clearly that hasn't happened. So it's not just about finding a safer way to deliver nicotine. Of the thousands of chemicals inhaled in cigarettes, I know of at least one - cadmium, which is both a known adrenal stimulant ("benefit") and a known carcinogen ("harm"). And sure enough, cadmium is right there among the components of e-cig vapors, though not in dangerous amounts, according to the lobbyists. [1] We'll see. [1] http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/research/research-2015/209-metals http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/resear...

The risk of lung/mouth cancer and general other physical effects far outweight the nervous system side effects (which are arguable, i never thought of smoking as a possible factor in depression).

tomhoward 11y ago

You're expressing opinions ("arguable") when hard evidence is readily available. Mouth and lung cancers and cardiovascular disease get all the headlines due to their mortality rates and hideous pictures. But there's a whole spectrum of harm that exists well before you get to those extremes, and the evidence is easily found if you care to search for it. See this 1993 study "Influence of cigarette smoking on human autonomic function" [1] In habitual smokers, smoking acutely reduces baseline levels of vagal-cardiac nerve activity and completely resets vagally mediated arterial baroreceptor-cardiac reflex responses. Smoking also reduces muscle sympathetic nerve activity but augments increases of sympathetic activity triggered by brief arterial pressure reductions. This pattern of autonomic changes is likely to influence smokers' responses to acute arterial pressure reductions importantly. Also, "Endocrine Effects of Tobacco Smoking" [2] Over many years a large number of studies have demonstrated that exposure to cigarette smoke produces marked neuroendocrine changes. The effects of nicotine on the hypothalamicpituitary axis (HPA) were first studied by Balfour (1989), who showed that nicotine was a potent activator of the HPA. The basic mechanism of action of nicotine on these systems appears to be contingent on its ability to mimic the effects of acetylcholine at selected central nicotinic acetylcholinergic receptors (Rosecransland & Karin, 1998). There are at least three types of nicotine binding sites in the hypothalamus (Fuxe et al., 1989). Nicotine stimulates neuronal firing directly by acting at the binding sites or indirectly by causing the release of acetylcholine or monoaminergic neurotransmitters (such as dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin) (Pickworth & Fant, 1998). Nicotine can thus affect HPA function through a variety of paths (Rosecransland & Karin, 1998). FYI it's often been observed that dysfunction of the HPA axis is a factor in depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue, hypothyroidism and other debilitating illnesses. Eg... One of the most enduring and replicated findings in biological psychiatry is activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in a subset of patients with major depressive disorder. This review will discuss some of these findings and their pertinence to the assessment and treatment of depressed patients. [3] [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8339419/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8339419/ [2] http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496223_2 http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496223_2 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC181180/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC181180/

mapt 11y ago
You're arguing inferred, postulated, or plausible effects from the chemical nicotine specifically in a combustion process that releases thousands of different varieties of volatile chemicals into the lungs and bloodstream, including things like chemical asphyxiants. That's a hell of a confounder to be observing any effect beneath whatsoever. To illustrate: "Cocaine-coated axes are shown to cause increased adrenaline response when administered to the subject's ribcage at a high rate of speed. This makes sense, because we postulate cocaine to be a stimulant. [uncoated axes not tested]"
- tomhoward 11y ago
  You're arguing inferred, postulated, or plausible effects from the chemical nicotine specifically in a combustion process that releases thousands of different varieties of volatile chemicals... Not really, but I get what you're saying. I can accept that e-cigs are likely vastly less harmful than smoked tobacco cigarettes. It will take a lot of time and rigorous research to establish what the difference really is, but I would expect it to be profound. But my point stands that there is likely not any way to get all the "benefits" of smoking without any of the harms. If it were just about nicotine, I'd expect to see everyone stop smoking and switch to nicotine patches or gum. Clearly that hasn't happened. So it's not just about finding a safer way to deliver nicotine. Of the thousands of chemicals inhaled in cigarettes, I know of at least one - cadmium, which is both a known adrenal stimulant ("benefit") and a known carcinogen ("harm"). And sure enough, cadmium is right there among the components of e-cig vapors, though not in dangerous amounts, according to the lobbyists. [1] We'll see. [1] http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/research/research-2015/209-metals http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/resear...