6 ms·

So... you need to reverse engineer some "security" thing to put 3rd party battery in a laptop? The same Lenovo people are recommending everywhere?

by qb45 11y ago

pilif 11y ago
Considering the damage a 3rd party battery can potentially cause, I can see where Lenovo is coming from. Of course there's also the aspect of securing margins on accessories, but there's also the aspect of making sure people's machines don't go up in flames or fail in ways that might trigger expensive repairs (which Lenovo will have to pay for if the device is still in warranty)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- wslh 11y ago
  We need a list of good/bad batteries then, and a label telling you to use the original batteries.
  - rincebrain 11y ago
    The problem is that, in a lot of cases, there's little QC on the third-party batteries, or even necessarily ways to validate the battery, since they're all just going to be using one of a handful of "copied" chips. Then you get into fun with who's liable if a battery explodes - many of these vendors don't really have much concrete existence, and good luck with a "warranty". Source: tried playing hard and fast with batteries a few times, including helping someone solder his own cells into a dead first-party battery.
- rincebrain 11y ago
  Lenovo would only have to cover the repair if you had the incidental damage coverage - last I checked, they're pretty sticky about not covering things that aren't manufacturer defect unless you have it.
  - pilif 11y ago
    How would they prove that the damage was caused by a third-party battery if there was no security feature to authenticate first-party ones? People would buy third party batteries and put the original back before filing a warranty claim
    - qb45 11y ago
      Heat damage or busted overvoltage protection diode. Is there something else a broken/wrong battery can do to a laptop?
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        It can literally burst into flames?
        qb45 11y ago
        They sometimes do, but then it's obvious that the laptop has been damaged by battery so the user would better show remnants of a genuine one before asking for warranty replacement.
        Klathmon 11y ago
        But warranty replacement is only one aspect, what happens when a social media website gets a tweet from someone saying their lenovo exploded? Something like that could significantly hurt the brand
        qb45 11y ago
        Various battery powered devices, including laptops, have been in use for decades. How many times somebody publicly blamed 3rd party battery failure on device vendor? Links or it doesn't happen.
        11y ago
- qb45 11y ago
  Vendors shouldn't be liable for actions of users. And if they are doing this out of well-meant concern for user safety, I suppose this warning screen during bootup would suffice. I would like to know if there are some actual regulations/litigations which forced them or if it's just another money grab like this SuperFish adware.
Joeboy 11y ago
> The same Lenovo people are recommending everywhere? Lenovo laptops used to be awesome. I'm typing this on a T410 and I'd still recommend an old Lenovo laptop for lots of purposes. I've heard mostly bad things about their newer offerings.
- lgieron 11y ago
  These are Thinkpads. I recently bought a non-Thinkpad Lenovo (y50-70 gaming laptop) and it's a piece of crap. The keyboard and touchpad are mediocre, fans are pretty loud under load, the numlock key has fallen off (!), and it sometimes just powers off for no reason. It costs 40% of what a comparable MacBook Pro would cost, but it is unfortuantely reflected in quality.
  - throwawayaway 11y ago
    The new lenovo thinkpads are nearly as bad. I'm an x series user, the last model with a good keyboard for programming was the x220. From the x230 onwards they have stupid chicklet keys, no visual representation of caps lock or numlock, bad trackpads, and 'modal' function keys - (visually represesented with LEDs of course). Abandoning traditional insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdn layout. Superfish on thinkpads, this battery thing, this bios thing: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov... Very frustrating! Beyond a joke at this stage.
    - mindslight 11y ago
      I really don't mind the keyboard on my X230. Then again, I don't see the point of caps lock or trackpads. The layout is a bit annoying when I switch back and forth to a T61, but that's due to the difference rather than inherent superiority. If the keyboard dies, I will obviously consider replacing it with an X220 keyboard but nothing makes me want to do that preemptively. The plastic case seems a bit flimsy, but so far hasn't broken. And obviously having a shortscreen sucks, but I accepted that tradeoff for the LED backlight and better specs.
Symmetry 11y ago
Well, the big TrackPoint patents are going to be expiring before too long so maybe someone else will be able to make good laptops for use without the touch pad?

So... you need to reverse engineer some "security" thing to put 3rd party battery in a laptop? The same Lenovo people are recommending everywhere?

by qb45 11y ago

So... you need to reverse engineer some "security" thing to put 3rd party battery in a laptop? The same Lenovo people are recommending everywhere?

pilif 11y ago

Considering the damage a 3rd party battery can potentially cause, I can see where Lenovo is coming from. Of course there's also the aspect of securing margins on accessories, but there's also the aspect of making sure people's machines don't go up in flames or fail in ways that might trigger expensive repairs (which Lenovo will have to pay for if the device is still in warranty)

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
wslh 11y ago
We need a list of good/bad batteries then, and a label telling you to use the original batteries.
- rincebrain 11y ago
  The problem is that, in a lot of cases, there's little QC on the third-party batteries, or even necessarily ways to validate the battery, since they're all just going to be using one of a handful of "copied" chips. Then you get into fun with who's liable if a battery explodes - many of these vendors don't really have much concrete existence, and good luck with a "warranty". Source: tried playing hard and fast with batteries a few times, including helping someone solder his own cells into a dead first-party battery.
rincebrain 11y ago
Lenovo would only have to cover the repair if you had the incidental damage coverage - last I checked, they're pretty sticky about not covering things that aren't manufacturer defect unless you have it.
- pilif 11y ago
  How would they prove that the damage was caused by a third-party battery if there was no security feature to authenticate first-party ones? People would buy third party batteries and put the original back before filing a warranty claim
  - qb45 11y ago
    Heat damage or busted overvoltage protection diode. Is there something else a broken/wrong battery can do to a laptop?
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      It can literally burst into flames?
      - qb45 11y ago
        They sometimes do, but then it's obvious that the laptop has been damaged by battery so the user would better show remnants of a genuine one before asking for warranty replacement.
        Klathmon 11y ago
        But warranty replacement is only one aspect, what happens when a social media website gets a tweet from someone saying their lenovo exploded? Something like that could significantly hurt the brand
        qb45 11y ago
        Various battery powered devices, including laptops, have been in use for decades. How many times somebody publicly blamed 3rd party battery failure on device vendor? Links or it doesn't happen.
        11y ago
qb45 11y ago
Vendors shouldn't be liable for actions of users. And if they are doing this out of well-meant concern for user safety, I suppose this warning screen during bootup would suffice. I would like to know if there are some actual regulations/litigations which forced them or if it's just another money grab like this SuperFish adware.

Joeboy 11y ago

> The same Lenovo people are recommending everywhere? Lenovo laptops used to be awesome. I'm typing this on a T410 and I'd still recommend an old Lenovo laptop for lots of purposes. I've heard mostly bad things about their newer offerings.

lgieron 11y ago
These are Thinkpads. I recently bought a non-Thinkpad Lenovo (y50-70 gaming laptop) and it's a piece of crap. The keyboard and touchpad are mediocre, fans are pretty loud under load, the numlock key has fallen off (!), and it sometimes just powers off for no reason. It costs 40% of what a comparable MacBook Pro would cost, but it is unfortuantely reflected in quality.
- throwawayaway 11y ago
  The new lenovo thinkpads are nearly as bad. I'm an x series user, the last model with a good keyboard for programming was the x220. From the x230 onwards they have stupid chicklet keys, no visual representation of caps lock or numlock, bad trackpads, and 'modal' function keys - (visually represesented with LEDs of course). Abandoning traditional insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdn layout. Superfish on thinkpads, this battery thing, this bios thing: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov... Very frustrating! Beyond a joke at this stage.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    I really don't mind the keyboard on my X230. Then again, I don't see the point of caps lock or trackpads. The layout is a bit annoying when I switch back and forth to a T61, but that's due to the difference rather than inherent superiority. If the keyboard dies, I will obviously consider replacing it with an X220 keyboard but nothing makes me want to do that preemptively. The plastic case seems a bit flimsy, but so far hasn't broken. And obviously having a shortscreen sucks, but I accepted that tradeoff for the LED backlight and better specs.

Symmetry 11y ago

Well, the big TrackPoint patents are going to be expiring before too long so maybe someone else will be able to make good laptops for use without the touch pad?