5 ms·

Yeah, maybe. But all of the security problems, the fact that the average user won't ever understand it, and the massive swings in value will stop me from ever

Yeah, maybe. But all of the security problems, the fact that the average user won't ever understand it, and the massive swings in value will stop me from ever taking it seriously

ivl 11y ago
How often do you think the average user understands, or ever will understand how what they're using works? Not going to disagree that it's hard to take bitcoin seriously, but I don't think that one has ever been much of an issue.
ryangittins 11y ago
How much does an average credit card user understand about what happens when they swipe it?
- pif 11y ago
  They don't care "how" it works. They know there is _a_ responsible subject (VISA, Mastercard, ...) behind the curtains, and they know such responsible subject to be have obtained clearing from the local government. When you invest money into bitcoins, who is your guarantee?
  - realusername 11y ago
    I'm not even sure people differentiate between their banks and the company behind the type of card itself, to them it's just "a credit card".
  - jMyles 11y ago
    I don't think that "responsible" is an adjective that people generally apply to the companies you've used as an example. "Powerful" perhaps. "Reliable" even. But disdain for big banks and credit card companies is very widespread, and people do want a system that is more... well, responsible.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- davnicwil 11y ago
  Yes. Going even further, how much does the average user of cash understand about where that piece of paper came from, and what it really represents, what it really means. They don't and they don't need to. The central banks and governments have over centuries created a wonderful abstraction over all of that complexity, and reduced cash to a completely usable and comprehensible token of value, which literally everyone can use without a moment's thought. A lot of bitcoin's complexity is rather thinly veiled by the current generation of clients and platforms, but it's basically just a question of time (maybe a lot of time), learnings and improvements until this gets better. Whether bitcoin will survive this period of time is a separate question, but that the complexity can be successfully abstracted away from eventually is inevitable. It's testament to the quality of the abstractions that cash and credit cards provide that we do trust them and use them without thinking, and wonder how we could ever switch to an alternative system that doesn't offer the same. But there's nothing intrinsically less complex about them, and there's no reason why bitcoin can't get to that point too. Always keep in mind, bitcoin's only been going for a few years - it's an incredibly young technology and ecosystem!
- bobby_9x 11y ago
  You can argue this point all you want, but Bitcoin is not really getting any support from the masses until it's brain dead easy. Most people understand that when they swipe their card, dollars are taken out of their account. It's a fairly simple process and pretty easy to understand. Bitcoin is much more complicated. You need to have files on a hard drive, a wallet, and to send bitcoin, it's non-trivial. Not to mention all of the crappy insecure websites getting hacked left and right. I know of at least 3 people that bought Bitcoin and lost it all because it was deleted accidentally. There is also trust there. I run a business using business credit cards and I need to file disputes occasionally. 99.9% of the time, I get my money back with a few phone calls. This will never happen with Bitcoin. To make it as easy as a credit card, there needs to be a central authority..which is against the whole premise of Bitcoin.
elif 11y ago
A. I'm not sure how to address your security concerns. Perhaps you could elaborate. B. The swings are not 'massive' as you are imagining. The floor at $370 has held through multiple selloffs now. If you look at the Rate of Change per day, it doesn't look much different from the DJIA. C. The average dollar user doesn't understand how the fed works.
- saalweachter 11y ago
  Regarding 'B', it doesn't help Bitcoin's case to keep comparing it to the stock market. If it's a currency, you can't fob off swings so glibly; if it is an investment, what is it an investment in?
  - elif 11y ago
    I think a label like "currency" attempts to oversimply bitcoin. There is obviously a bigger speculative component to it than most currencies. "Investment" may not be an appropriate term either. However, I find value in bitcoin because it is relatively independent of inflation and market cycles. Notably, it seems to have an inverse relationship with oppressive currency controls (e.g. greece, venezuela). I suppose, in that way, you could consider it an investment in personal sovereignty.

Yeah, maybe. But all of the security problems, the fact that the average user won't ever understand it, and the massive swings in value will stop me from ever taking it seriously

ivl 11y ago

How often do you think the average user understands, or ever will understand how what they're using works? Not going to disagree that it's hard to take bitcoin seriously, but I don't think that one has ever been much of an issue.

ryangittins 11y ago

How much does an average credit card user understand about what happens when they swipe it?

pif 11y ago
They don't care "how" it works. They know there is _a_ responsible subject (VISA, Mastercard, ...) behind the curtains, and they know such responsible subject to be have obtained clearing from the local government. When you invest money into bitcoins, who is your guarantee?
- realusername 11y ago
  I'm not even sure people differentiate between their banks and the company behind the type of card itself, to them it's just "a credit card".
- jMyles 11y ago
  I don't think that "responsible" is an adjective that people generally apply to the companies you've used as an example. "Powerful" perhaps. "Reliable" even. But disdain for big banks and credit card companies is very widespread, and people do want a system that is more... well, responsible.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
davnicwil 11y ago
Yes. Going even further, how much does the average user of cash understand about where that piece of paper came from, and what it really represents, what it really means. They don't and they don't need to. The central banks and governments have over centuries created a wonderful abstraction over all of that complexity, and reduced cash to a completely usable and comprehensible token of value, which literally everyone can use without a moment's thought. A lot of bitcoin's complexity is rather thinly veiled by the current generation of clients and platforms, but it's basically just a question of time (maybe a lot of time), learnings and improvements until this gets better. Whether bitcoin will survive this period of time is a separate question, but that the complexity can be successfully abstracted away from eventually is inevitable. It's testament to the quality of the abstractions that cash and credit cards provide that we do trust them and use them without thinking, and wonder how we could ever switch to an alternative system that doesn't offer the same. But there's nothing intrinsically less complex about them, and there's no reason why bitcoin can't get to that point too. Always keep in mind, bitcoin's only been going for a few years - it's an incredibly young technology and ecosystem!
bobby_9x 11y ago
You can argue this point all you want, but Bitcoin is not really getting any support from the masses until it's brain dead easy. Most people understand that when they swipe their card, dollars are taken out of their account. It's a fairly simple process and pretty easy to understand. Bitcoin is much more complicated. You need to have files on a hard drive, a wallet, and to send bitcoin, it's non-trivial. Not to mention all of the crappy insecure websites getting hacked left and right. I know of at least 3 people that bought Bitcoin and lost it all because it was deleted accidentally. There is also trust there. I run a business using business credit cards and I need to file disputes occasionally. 99.9% of the time, I get my money back with a few phone calls. This will never happen with Bitcoin. To make it as easy as a credit card, there needs to be a central authority..which is against the whole premise of Bitcoin.

elif 11y ago

A. I'm not sure how to address your security concerns. Perhaps you could elaborate. B. The swings are not 'massive' as you are imagining. The floor at $370 has held through multiple selloffs now. If you look at the Rate of Change per day, it doesn't look much different from the DJIA. C. The average dollar user doesn't understand how the fed works.

saalweachter 11y ago
Regarding 'B', it doesn't help Bitcoin's case to keep comparing it to the stock market. If it's a currency, you can't fob off swings so glibly; if it is an investment, what is it an investment in?
- elif 11y ago
  I think a label like "currency" attempts to oversimply bitcoin. There is obviously a bigger speculative component to it than most currencies. "Investment" may not be an appropriate term either. However, I find value in bitcoin because it is relatively independent of inflation and market cycles. Notably, it seems to have an inverse relationship with oppressive currency controls (e.g. greece, venezuela). I suppose, in that way, you could consider it an investment in personal sovereignty.