5 ms·

Berlin's values have risen to the point where rents are on average 10 euros per square meter. You can rent a 100 sqm for only 1000 euros per month!!!! You can

Berlin's values have risen to the point where rents are on average 10 euros per square meter. You can rent a 100 sqm for only 1000 euros per month!!!! You can't get 40 sqm for that same amount in Paris.

tomkinstinch 11y ago
Berlin seems like an amazing value for a capital city with rich culture. Here in Boston I'm paying 3700 euros for (poorly maintained) 90 sqm, of course split with five people. Maybe it is time to consider a stint in Berlin. Are there any resources you would recommend to learn more about the city, and the tech scene?
- iheartmemcache 11y ago
  I've lived in Boston, DC, NYC and London for extended periods of time, and spent a stint in Berlin. It's tech scene is awesome - if you find the right group of people it feels like CCC year round. It's art, music and food scene was an amazing value for the money when I was there circa 2011. I'm guessing the equivalent of their hipsters got wise to it and drove up prices a la the gentrification you saw (compare the between the dirty-grimy NYC of the "Taxi Driver" 1970s vs the clean power-tie NYC of the 1980s bond-trading years, or the early 2000s Williamsburg where the rent was somewhat reasonable vs 2010 where anything on the L costed literally 3 times as much because every white kid with a fixie had his parents pay his $2600 rent, etc. $800/mo on a split isn't too bad for Boston if you're anywhere close to a decent spot on the T, considering the supply/demand (it's arguably the biggest college region in the US - between Cambridge, Boston and BC in Newton it's probably the densest student:non-student ratio in the US). Berlin had that vibrant feeling that's hard to explain but yeah the tech scene was (and hopefully still is) spectacular, especially re: the hardware hacking scene when I was there and it's certainly worth a visit. Edit: http://ccc.de/ http://ccc.de/ In math if you solve something major, odds are you'll wait till that years AMS Symposium to present; if you crack the PS3, CCC is where fail0verflow went to present. (Don't write them off because of their l33t-name, these guys aren't script kiddies -- these hacks are worthy of PhD theses if you see the detail of reverse engineering they go into.).
  - goldbrick 11y ago
    CCC?
    - sdl 11y ago
      Chaos Computer Club - Europe's largest association of hackers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club)
jlangenauer 11y ago
I moved to Berlin recently from Sydney. My rent is 60% of what I was paying in Sydney, and for a nicer apartment. I can't believe more people aren't moving here. (Maybe I shouldn't say so. Keep the secret to those who know.)
- ido 11y ago
  It's not much of a secret? Berlin has been growing fast these past few years, as are real estate prices: http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/politicians-struggle-to-keep-pace-with-berlins-growth http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/politicians-struggle-to-keep... And while rents are still cheap compared to other large western cities, they went (and are going) through about the same curve as these more expensive cities - it simply started lower here.
- GFischer 11y ago
  Well, as someone who's considering Australia and NZ as potential destinations, both language and visa situations are big hurdles to clear for moving to Berlin. Maybe you have an European or U.S. citizenship, but they're harder towards South Americans. Also, software development salaries weren't something to write home about last time I checked (that was some a long time ago admittedly). Edit: According to Glassdoor, Berlin Software Engineer Salary: €48000 (average) Sydney Software Engineer Salary: $80000 (average)
  - ido 11y ago
    $80k AUD is €50k, sounds pretty close to me.
    - GFischer 11y ago
      So, not worth jumping through all the extra inmigration hoops compared to Australia or New Zealand, not to mention the language barrier. My grandfather was German-born and they didn't grant the citizeship to him, and I remember the ridiculous requirements he faced trying to get it (and he was more German than most actual Germans, a Fischer Reuter Spangemberg and more German surnames all the way down) http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/skilled-immigrant-workers-face-obstacles-in-german-labor-market-a-938519.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/skilled-immigran... "The paperwork is nightmarishly complex and requires a wealth of information, with endless pages and extra documents. Sometimes translations are required, sometimes not. In fact, she no longer sends the papers off without consulting an expert. Anders works as the human resources manager for Adidas. She is looking for skilled workers in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. These days, even a company like Adidas rarely finds new employees in Germany, especially IT experts and designers."

tomkinstinch 11y ago

Berlin seems like an amazing value for a capital city with rich culture. Here in Boston I'm paying 3700 euros for (poorly maintained) 90 sqm, of course split with five people. Maybe it is time to consider a stint in Berlin. Are there any resources you would recommend to learn more about the city, and the tech scene?

iheartmemcache 11y ago
I've lived in Boston, DC, NYC and London for extended periods of time, and spent a stint in Berlin. It's tech scene is awesome - if you find the right group of people it feels like CCC year round. It's art, music and food scene was an amazing value for the money when I was there circa 2011. I'm guessing the equivalent of their hipsters got wise to it and drove up prices a la the gentrification you saw (compare the between the dirty-grimy NYC of the "Taxi Driver" 1970s vs the clean power-tie NYC of the 1980s bond-trading years, or the early 2000s Williamsburg where the rent was somewhat reasonable vs 2010 where anything on the L costed literally 3 times as much because every white kid with a fixie had his parents pay his $2600 rent, etc. $800/mo on a split isn't too bad for Boston if you're anywhere close to a decent spot on the T, considering the supply/demand (it's arguably the biggest college region in the US - between Cambridge, Boston and BC in Newton it's probably the densest student:non-student ratio in the US). Berlin had that vibrant feeling that's hard to explain but yeah the tech scene was (and hopefully still is) spectacular, especially re: the hardware hacking scene when I was there and it's certainly worth a visit. Edit: http://ccc.de/ http://ccc.de/ In math if you solve something major, odds are you'll wait till that years AMS Symposium to present; if you crack the PS3, CCC is where fail0verflow went to present. (Don't write them off because of their l33t-name, these guys aren't script kiddies -- these hacks are worthy of PhD theses if you see the detail of reverse engineering they go into.).
- goldbrick 11y ago
  CCC?
  - sdl 11y ago
    Chaos Computer Club - Europe's largest association of hackers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club)

jlangenauer 11y ago

I moved to Berlin recently from Sydney. My rent is 60% of what I was paying in Sydney, and for a nicer apartment. I can't believe more people aren't moving here. (Maybe I shouldn't say so. Keep the secret to those who know.)

ido 11y ago
It's not much of a secret? Berlin has been growing fast these past few years, as are real estate prices: http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/politicians-struggle-to-keep-pace-with-berlins-growth http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/politicians-struggle-to-keep... And while rents are still cheap compared to other large western cities, they went (and are going) through about the same curve as these more expensive cities - it simply started lower here.
GFischer 11y ago
Well, as someone who's considering Australia and NZ as potential destinations, both language and visa situations are big hurdles to clear for moving to Berlin. Maybe you have an European or U.S. citizenship, but they're harder towards South Americans. Also, software development salaries weren't something to write home about last time I checked (that was some a long time ago admittedly). Edit: According to Glassdoor, Berlin Software Engineer Salary: €48000 (average) Sydney Software Engineer Salary: $80000 (average)
- ido 11y ago
  $80k AUD is €50k, sounds pretty close to me.
  - GFischer 11y ago
    So, not worth jumping through all the extra inmigration hoops compared to Australia or New Zealand, not to mention the language barrier. My grandfather was German-born and they didn't grant the citizeship to him, and I remember the ridiculous requirements he faced trying to get it (and he was more German than most actual Germans, a Fischer Reuter Spangemberg and more German surnames all the way down) http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/skilled-immigrant-workers-face-obstacles-in-german-labor-market-a-938519.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/skilled-immigran... "The paperwork is nightmarishly complex and requires a wealth of information, with endless pages and extra documents. Sometimes translations are required, sometimes not. In fact, she no longer sends the papers off without consulting an expert. Anders works as the human resources manager for Adidas. She is looking for skilled workers in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. These days, even a company like Adidas rarely finds new employees in Germany, especially IT experts and designers."