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> Bilingual data is highly repetitive That depends on which pairs someone has and which concepts they (re/dis/_cross_)connect to understand something. For ins

> Bilingual data is highly repetitive That depends on which pairs someone has and which concepts they (re/dis/_cross_)connect to understand something. For instance, Spanish and Portuguese (a common combo, both stemming from Latin) and Hebrew and Arabic (another common combo, both stemming from Semitic languages) provide less cultural variation and thus conceptual synergies than when someone cross-pollinates them. > (2) And not every concept is useful - (1) what use [is] [grammatical gender]? (1) It gives a window into how each culture understands a given field and Universe overall, eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_classes#Common_criteria_for_noun_classes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_classes#Common_criteria_f... . (2) It may get too cold or too hot one day, so changing your houses' windows' degree of openness may help you with your current homeostatic needs... welding them into that place, even if that change makes a huge difference, probably wouldn't work out long term.. A simple stick of a suitable height, or none at all, or perhaps a counter balancing weight, will work much better. > Add in that fact that as a tool for communication, you won't be able to use you full vocabulary everywhere. Perhaps it would make sense to prune our English vocabulary. After all, less is more, and the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If you regularly add new tools to perform previously unforeseen functions in software you use\write, then perhaps your optimizations for these specific features comes at a cost of generally misunderstanding software and information structures\informatic processes. It doesn't necessarily take more to do more. > In addition, seems like there is an obvious difficulty wrt incompatible grammars. Luckily we have two hands, so we can easily hold on to two branches (as long as we have them within reach). Even if one bears one kind of fruit and another a different one, simply remember how to swing back and forth and you can get fat and happy with your varied sets of friends and fruits. :D > There's nothing preventing you expanding you current vocabulary in your native language (jargon) - why do you need to learn a new language? C'est si bon Lovers say that in France ... http://artists.letssingit.com/louis-armstrong-lyrics-cest-si-bon-fv23s8d http://artists.letssingit.com/louis-armstrong-lyrics-cest-si...

Chris2048 11y ago
> That depends on which pairs Portuguese and Spanish have more in common than many other latin-derived languages. Again, two similar languages, slightly different words for the same things... Most languages will have a basic set of concepts in common, and will have different words for each. > (1) It gives a window into how each culture understands a given field and Universe overall And be more interested in examples of this than analogies. If one culture say "get in the bath/shower" and another "get on the bath/shower" (ala. "get on a train") what understanding does it give us? Could we not get the same understanding by reading linguistics books instead?.. > Perhaps it would make sense to prune our English vocabulary. After all, less is more, and the whole is greater than the sum of its parts less is more is an fashionable ideology in certain design circles, not a universal law. English is pretty idiomatic - that's where the missing words go. I don't think software analogies are useful here, natural languages are very less explicit than software tooling. > Luckily we have two hands o-k. Care to unpack that? this is an outright substitution of a sensible argument for a vague anology... How is confusion between incompatible grammer likely to make you fat and happy?
- mitchtbaum 11y ago
  > Portuguese and Spanish have common... I used "cross-connect" and "cross-pollinate" in that point. How could it seem like I advised pairing two similar languages(' "data")? Perhaps you could lightly shake your chair or do an Irish step dance or a Sufi whirl as your reread that point to see what I meant.. > [interested in examples of how each culture understands a given field and Universe overall, instead of analogies] Hold on while I "pick my jaw up off the floor".. Shared analogical perspective makes 80% (off hand estimate) of anything above a bare level of expression possible, using conceptual metaphors. When we say "falling in love", "taking a shot in the dark", "flying by the seat of your pants", "shooting from the hip", "feathering your nest", "both sides of the same coin", "where your bread is buttered", on and on and on... we use bridges, which our conceptual ancestors and contemporaries built between what they already experienced and what life threw their way, by seeing some relationship across seemingly unrelated constructs and reusing much older words in innovative combos to make phrases so that they can convey rich meaning, layer cakes, each with foundations, interesting confections, and occasional icings, if you will.. Look at each of them again and plumb the depths of your mind for memories with each word's meaning and also its historical origin and significance. Each of those things happened where they did for whom they did. In other cultures some of these things happened similarly, some very differently, some not at all, etc. If you jump to a belief that these can translate directly or potentially even poetically then you completely miss the boat. You need to experience life in a matching way, among matching "conceptual relatives", and more, to make the words mean what they mean to fellow speakers and listeners as what they mean to you. I hope with English expressions alone and this level of verbosity I hit the nail on the head for you, because mapping this into a cross-cultural scenery with useful demos makes a combinatoric explosion in my mind :-) . Perhaps you'll see what I mean through your own travels.. And if I made it more concrete with my own found constructs, then that might tangle your own yarn while you spin your delicate fibers into strong spools that you can weave into your own tapestry of rich colors and design. > Could we not get the same understanding by reading linguistics books instead? Just like you asked for a second ago, examples are what do it. You can study patterns and principles; without experiencing it, you miss what it is. This reminds me of what Feynman said in The Pleasure of Finding Things Out, about what things are called versus what they are, and the ___Chinese___ proverb, "Tell me, I’ll forget // Show me, I’ll remember // Involve me, I’ll understand". Reading isn't __________________. It never was. It never will be. Only you can fill in that blank. > [I don't think analogies are useful] I exaggerated your quote, since if you would hesitate to pool your concepts somewhere then you might do so everywhere... I definitely go overboard with my analogies, then again, I like swimming. (~* does he really mean he likes swimming?.. weren't we also talking about analogies?.. what does it mean to swim?.. *~) > How is confusion between incompatible [grammars] likely to make you fat and happy? Can you hold a pear and a pineapple at the same time? Can you eat them at the same time, or do you need to put one down and pick up another tool first? One simply needs rinsing before eating, one needs peeling and slicing. Two hands, two tools, two tastes. (mmm... fruit salad) Context switches require a mental jump. ..This dance we have here makes me smile and cry together. Beauty, like in this case with metaphors, needs eyes to see it. Words tend to make it vanish. Subtlety might seem vague, I guess, when you want something to behave differently from its own nature. If your eyes can hold onto an image of that pear tree and that pineapple plant after you've picked from them and walked away, then thorny fruits might make more sense to you when you see them growing on other grounds. And plump bottomed, thin skinned delights might show you even sweeter tastes long after you've finished the last bite. To build mental bridges over the depths of your mind, between two fertile fields that _will_ connect beyond their original bounds, you need to align your well-oriented sight on each of their respective sources through what makes one thing similar to another, the bridge that makes understanding commute, then you can connect them using the same type of duct (one inlet connection type, one channel path's flow, and one outflow connection type). Set up the scene, and you can fit each piece into its jagged or smooth placement. Turn, twist, flip, shake, etc, as needed. Grammars areLike fruits inThat they can both give sweet supplies of nourishment (one materially, one non-materially), especiallyWhile in an environment where capably switching back and forth to use them both isLike how a primate can swing between canopies to get those fruits and whatever else he wants there (ie enjoyment of eating each with friends who hang out there). It goes deeper... (^A passing cloud comes in on a foresightly breeze with warm whispers, "take good aim, friend".) > Most languages will have a basic set of concepts in common, and will have different words for each. Echos of this misunderstanding ripple down below layers we stand on while many an eye see a vanilla sky where there is mostly soil and dirt.

Chris2048 11y ago

> That depends on which pairs Portuguese and Spanish have more in common than many other latin-derived languages. Again, two similar languages, slightly different words for the same things... Most languages will have a basic set of concepts in common, and will have different words for each. > (1) It gives a window into how each culture understands a given field and Universe overall And be more interested in examples of this than analogies. If one culture say "get in the bath/shower" and another "get on the bath/shower" (ala. "get on a train") what understanding does it give us? Could we not get the same understanding by reading linguistics books instead?.. > Perhaps it would make sense to prune our English vocabulary. After all, less is more, and the whole is greater than the sum of its parts less is more is an fashionable ideology in certain design circles, not a universal law. English is pretty idiomatic - that's where the missing words go. I don't think software analogies are useful here, natural languages are very less explicit than software tooling. > Luckily we have two hands o-k. Care to unpack that? this is an outright substitution of a sensible argument for a vague anology... How is confusion between incompatible grammer likely to make you fat and happy?

mitchtbaum 11y ago
> Portuguese and Spanish have common... I used "cross-connect" and "cross-pollinate" in that point. How could it seem like I advised pairing two similar languages(' "data")? Perhaps you could lightly shake your chair or do an Irish step dance or a Sufi whirl as your reread that point to see what I meant.. > [interested in examples of how each culture understands a given field and Universe overall, instead of analogies] Hold on while I "pick my jaw up off the floor".. Shared analogical perspective makes 80% (off hand estimate) of anything above a bare level of expression possible, using conceptual metaphors. When we say "falling in love", "taking a shot in the dark", "flying by the seat of your pants", "shooting from the hip", "feathering your nest", "both sides of the same coin", "where your bread is buttered", on and on and on... we use bridges, which our conceptual ancestors and contemporaries built between what they already experienced and what life threw their way, by seeing some relationship across seemingly unrelated constructs and reusing much older words in innovative combos to make phrases so that they can convey rich meaning, layer cakes, each with foundations, interesting confections, and occasional icings, if you will.. Look at each of them again and plumb the depths of your mind for memories with each word's meaning and also its historical origin and significance. Each of those things happened where they did for whom they did. In other cultures some of these things happened similarly, some very differently, some not at all, etc. If you jump to a belief that these can translate directly or potentially even poetically then you completely miss the boat. You need to experience life in a matching way, among matching "conceptual relatives", and more, to make the words mean what they mean to fellow speakers and listeners as what they mean to you. I hope with English expressions alone and this level of verbosity I hit the nail on the head for you, because mapping this into a cross-cultural scenery with useful demos makes a combinatoric explosion in my mind :-) . Perhaps you'll see what I mean through your own travels.. And if I made it more concrete with my own found constructs, then that might tangle your own yarn while you spin your delicate fibers into strong spools that you can weave into your own tapestry of rich colors and design. > Could we not get the same understanding by reading linguistics books instead? Just like you asked for a second ago, examples are what do it. You can study patterns and principles; without experiencing it, you miss what it is. This reminds me of what Feynman said in The Pleasure of Finding Things Out, about what things are called versus what they are, and the ___Chinese___ proverb, "Tell me, I’ll forget // Show me, I’ll remember // Involve me, I’ll understand". Reading isn't __________________. It never was. It never will be. Only you can fill in that blank. > [I don't think analogies are useful] I exaggerated your quote, since if you would hesitate to pool your concepts somewhere then you might do so everywhere... I definitely go overboard with my analogies, then again, I like swimming. (~* does he really mean he likes swimming?.. weren't we also talking about analogies?.. what does it mean to swim?.. *~) > How is confusion between incompatible [grammars] likely to make you fat and happy? Can you hold a pear and a pineapple at the same time? Can you eat them at the same time, or do you need to put one down and pick up another tool first? One simply needs rinsing before eating, one needs peeling and slicing. Two hands, two tools, two tastes. (mmm... fruit salad) Context switches require a mental jump. ..This dance we have here makes me smile and cry together. Beauty, like in this case with metaphors, needs eyes to see it. Words tend to make it vanish. Subtlety might seem vague, I guess, when you want something to behave differently from its own nature. If your eyes can hold onto an image of that pear tree and that pineapple plant after you've picked from them and walked away, then thorny fruits might make more sense to you when you see them growing on other grounds. And plump bottomed, thin skinned delights might show you even sweeter tastes long after you've finished the last bite. To build mental bridges over the depths of your mind, between two fertile fields that _will_ connect beyond their original bounds, you need to align your well-oriented sight on each of their respective sources through what makes one thing similar to another, the bridge that makes understanding commute, then you can connect them using the same type of duct (one inlet connection type, one channel path's flow, and one outflow connection type). Set up the scene, and you can fit each piece into its jagged or smooth placement. Turn, twist, flip, shake, etc, as needed. Grammars areLike fruits inThat they can both give sweet supplies of nourishment (one materially, one non-materially), especiallyWhile in an environment where capably switching back and forth to use them both isLike how a primate can swing between canopies to get those fruits and whatever else he wants there (ie enjoyment of eating each with friends who hang out there). It goes deeper... (^A passing cloud comes in on a foresightly breeze with warm whispers, "take good aim, friend".) > Most languages will have a basic set of concepts in common, and will have different words for each. Echos of this misunderstanding ripple down below layers we stand on while many an eye see a vanilla sky where there is mostly soil and dirt.