4 ms·

My original comment wasn't about banning private healthcare, it was about a government forcing people to pay for a product or service that isn't acceptable, or

My original comment wasn't about banning private healthcare, it was about a government forcing people to pay for a product or service that isn't acceptable, or actually damages people's lives because it is managed so poorly. The Citizens of Flint still have access to bottle water, thank goodness, but they still have to pay their city water bills unfortunately. The same would go for Bernie Sander's health plan whether or not the service provided was actually worth the price paid. >>You as an individual are free to afford whatever you want. That is not actually true. I'm spent the afternoon searching for health insurance for my wife, who is pregnant, and trying to immigrate to the U.S. Thanks to the 2,000 pages of ACA regulation, there is no clause or loophole that allows us to purchase insurance for her. Your argument using 'data' is not sympathetic nor persuasive to me.

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 11y ago
> Thanks to the 2,000 pages of ACA regulation, there is no clause or loophole that allows us to purchase insurance for her. Are you saying that the ACA is the reason your wife can't purchase health insurance?
- bsbechtel 11y ago
  Yes, because before the ACA, there were at least options available, albeit expensive. Her situation is complicated, but now there is pretty much nothing available that she qualifies for. Or worse, if there is, I am unable to locate and communicate with those people who can help me, and the people in charge of helping me are not properly trained (another example of the situation above). I've talked to our State's Office for Insurance, and they're trying to help, but are also frustrated (and very sympathetic) with the situation.
makecheck 11y ago
Bernie's real expectation is that things will get better if people get off their butts and take action. I doubt he believes that government programs will be magically efficient and effective without the right people to make them that way. Government jobs are available. You can't really complain about something being "managed so poorly" unless you're one of the people in that organization trying to make it better. Currently the U.S. has a system where doctors' offices need SEVERAL full time staff just to deal with insurance companies, which is insane and nothing like what I have seen elsewhere.
- bsbechtel 11y ago
  >>Bernie's real expectation is that things will get better if people get off their butts and take action. I doubt he believes that government programs will be magically efficient and effective without the right people to make them that way. The problem is, with a government program, we're all forced to pay into it, no matter how good or bad the program actually is. When you are forced to pay for services from an organization, you have every right to complain about how poor those services are if you suffer because of them. If you expect that a government program will be great because Bernie hires the right people, what about the next President, and the President after that? The capabilities of individuals is government statistically by a bell curve and normal distribution. Even if you can select the very best person to manage that program for 4 years, the law of regression to the mean dictates that some future hire will be less capable. So how to we prevent mediocre people from eventually filling these positions, and thus wasting the money we are forced to pay in taxes to fund them?
  - makecheck 11y ago
    Well one thing to consider is that a great many countries have managed to do it so we aren't exactly charting scary new territory. We've essentially been told that this has succeeded so the real question is why haven’t we at least tried our own version of it? Every single job or project has the risk of eventually being taken over by less competent people (or at least, people who didn't understand the entire original vision). Every taxpayer has to live with the fact that he or she won't agree with everything the government does with money. I would have personally loved to have contributed no tax money at all on the military wastes of the last decade, for example. Taxpayers don't really get to choose at a low granularity, otherwise everyone would find some way to cherry-pick to the point that nothing big could get done. The way to fix it is to put skin in the game personally. Quit your job and apply to work for the government; or, write to a congressman and really press on them that you consider this important; or better yet, tell 50 of your friends and get some network effects; or join some larger group that petitions for change (as so many other groups do).
    - bsbechtel 11y ago

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 11y ago

> Thanks to the 2,000 pages of ACA regulation, there is no clause or loophole that allows us to purchase insurance for her. Are you saying that the ACA is the reason your wife can't purchase health insurance?

bsbechtel 11y ago
Yes, because before the ACA, there were at least options available, albeit expensive. Her situation is complicated, but now there is pretty much nothing available that she qualifies for. Or worse, if there is, I am unable to locate and communicate with those people who can help me, and the people in charge of helping me are not properly trained (another example of the situation above). I've talked to our State's Office for Insurance, and they're trying to help, but are also frustrated (and very sympathetic) with the situation.

makecheck 11y ago

Bernie's real expectation is that things will get better if people get off their butts and take action. I doubt he believes that government programs will be magically efficient and effective without the right people to make them that way. Government jobs are available. You can't really complain about something being "managed so poorly" unless you're one of the people in that organization trying to make it better. Currently the U.S. has a system where doctors' offices need SEVERAL full time staff just to deal with insurance companies, which is insane and nothing like what I have seen elsewhere.

bsbechtel 11y ago
>>Bernie's real expectation is that things will get better if people get off their butts and take action. I doubt he believes that government programs will be magically efficient and effective without the right people to make them that way. The problem is, with a government program, we're all forced to pay into it, no matter how good or bad the program actually is. When you are forced to pay for services from an organization, you have every right to complain about how poor those services are if you suffer because of them. If you expect that a government program will be great because Bernie hires the right people, what about the next President, and the President after that? The capabilities of individuals is government statistically by a bell curve and normal distribution. Even if you can select the very best person to manage that program for 4 years, the law of regression to the mean dictates that some future hire will be less capable. So how to we prevent mediocre people from eventually filling these positions, and thus wasting the money we are forced to pay in taxes to fund them?
- makecheck 11y ago
  Well one thing to consider is that a great many countries have managed to do it so we aren't exactly charting scary new territory. We've essentially been told that this has succeeded so the real question is why haven’t we at least tried our own version of it? Every single job or project has the risk of eventually being taken over by less competent people (or at least, people who didn't understand the entire original vision). Every taxpayer has to live with the fact that he or she won't agree with everything the government does with money. I would have personally loved to have contributed no tax money at all on the military wastes of the last decade, for example. Taxpayers don't really get to choose at a low granularity, otherwise everyone would find some way to cherry-pick to the point that nothing big could get done. The way to fix it is to put skin in the game personally. Quit your job and apply to work for the government; or, write to a congressman and really press on them that you consider this important; or better yet, tell 50 of your friends and get some network effects; or join some larger group that petitions for change (as so many other groups do).
  - bsbechtel 11y ago