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As a private citizen, can I go around nailing up cameras on utility poles? I assume the federal government does not own the pole, so it would require the permi

As a private citizen, can I go around nailing up cameras on utility poles? I assume the federal government does not own the pole, so it would require the permission of the pole owner and/or the municipality, no?

toomuchtodo 11y ago
No and yes. You just need to rent the pole from the utility or municipality.
- private_citizen 11y ago
  Did the ATF rent the pole from the public utility? The article was unclear on that point.
  - dsp1234 11y ago
    FTA: "at the direction of the ATF and without a warrant, the utility company installed a surveillance camera on a public utility pole located roughly 200 yards from Leon’s trailer." The utility company installed the camera voluntarily.
    - gknoy 11y ago
      When the ATF asks you do to do something without a warrant, is doing it really "voluntary"? What business owner would say no?
      - dsp1234 11y ago
        is doing it really "voluntary"? Of course. Most utility companies have a large number of lawyers. Lawyers which advise them on actions. Sometimes those lawyers are going to say "just do it, it'll be easier", but it's still voluntary. What do you think the effect of saying "Our lawyers are pretty sure that this type of surveillance would require a warrant. Do you have one of those?" would be? It's not like they are going to shoot up the utility. What business owner would say no? There appears to be no evidence that the ATF told the utility that they would take any adverse action if they did not install the camera. This is just like if the police come to your door and say "Can we come in?". Let them in after they ask, and that is voluntary. Even if most people would not want to say no (which is something that state and federal officers rely on). Many companies that get requests from local and federal agencies will tell them that their request is deficient and to provide proper documentation (ex: facebook and twitter have sent back requests or tried to squash subpoenas that they deem to be insufficient). My guess is that we don't hear about this very often because it's supremely easy for the agency to just go get the warrant (it's not a high barrier at all) or find someone more amenable. It's just easier for the agency if the company voluntarily complies.
      - 5555624 11y ago
        Yes, it's voluntary. If they had a warrant, it would not be "voluntary." I can imagine businesses telling them to come back with a warrant. When asked, in court, they installed the camera, they can answer "because we had to."

toomuchtodo 11y ago

No and yes. You just need to rent the pole from the utility or municipality.

private_citizen 11y ago
Did the ATF rent the pole from the public utility? The article was unclear on that point.
- dsp1234 11y ago
  FTA: "at the direction of the ATF and without a warrant, the utility company installed a surveillance camera on a public utility pole located roughly 200 yards from Leon’s trailer." The utility company installed the camera voluntarily.
  - gknoy 11y ago
    When the ATF asks you do to do something without a warrant, is doing it really "voluntary"? What business owner would say no?
    - dsp1234 11y ago
      is doing it really "voluntary"? Of course. Most utility companies have a large number of lawyers. Lawyers which advise them on actions. Sometimes those lawyers are going to say "just do it, it'll be easier", but it's still voluntary. What do you think the effect of saying "Our lawyers are pretty sure that this type of surveillance would require a warrant. Do you have one of those?" would be? It's not like they are going to shoot up the utility. What business owner would say no? There appears to be no evidence that the ATF told the utility that they would take any adverse action if they did not install the camera. This is just like if the police come to your door and say "Can we come in?". Let them in after they ask, and that is voluntary. Even if most people would not want to say no (which is something that state and federal officers rely on). Many companies that get requests from local and federal agencies will tell them that their request is deficient and to provide proper documentation (ex: facebook and twitter have sent back requests or tried to squash subpoenas that they deem to be insufficient). My guess is that we don't hear about this very often because it's supremely easy for the agency to just go get the warrant (it's not a high barrier at all) or find someone more amenable. It's just easier for the agency if the company voluntarily complies.
    - 5555624 11y ago
      Yes, it's voluntary. If they had a warrant, it would not be "voluntary." I can imagine businesses telling them to come back with a warrant. When asked, in court, they installed the camera, they can answer "because we had to."