10 ms·
Lesbians tend to earn more than heterosexual women
- RickHull 11y agoWe have to close the hetero pay gap.
- diogenescynic 11y agoSomewhat related, the highest-paid female CEO is transgender.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoWho is this?
- diogenescynic 11y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martine_Rothblatt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martine_Rothblatt
- Diamons 11y ago"LABOUR markets are hotbeds of inequality. For every dollar a white American man in full-time work earns, the average white woman earns 78 cents and the average Latina only 56 cents." Study after study has proven this statement false when accounting for the type of work done.
- mycroft-holmes 11y agoAnd if you point this out you're a misogynist.
- theseatoms 11y agoOnly to unreasonable people.
- zo1 11y agoWhich wouldn't be so bad if they didn't form the majority (or at least appear-to, judging by the net-effect of everyone interacting in the public-sphere).
- mycroft-holmes 11y agoLike @zo1 said, we don't really know the real landscape either. Just think of how little it takes to silence someone like Marc Andreessen. Now think of all the commentary people in tech don't say, especially on social issues, because the online masses with pitchforks will be after you. Unfortunately that's the way it is for a lot of people after a certain point. The only counter example of this in tech I can think of is David Heinemeier Hansson.
- Kristine1975 11y ago>Just think of how little it takes to silence someone like Marc Andreessen Hyperbole much? He wasn't silenced in the slightest (which would be difficult to do, given the amount of money, i.e. power he has).
- mycroft-holmes 11y agoOkay everyone took this a bit too literally. Obviously I don't mean he was literally silenced. But I would bet he's self-censoring a bit more: "I now withdraw from all future discussions of Indian economics and politics, and leave them to people with more knowledge and experience!" which was then followed by five tweets to explain the original tweet. That kind of reaction has to influence his willingness to speak on other topics not directly related to tech.
- geofft 11y ago> silence If getting a deleted tweet reprinted in several tech publications and on the top of HN is being "silenced", I would love to be silenced more.
- mycroft-holmes 11y ago
- zo1 11y agoI'd imagine that pregnancy resulting in lower years of experience at the same age as the equivalently-aged man has an effect on that disparity as well.
- theseatoms 11y agoAlso, the risk of maternity leave should lower wages, (depending, of course, on its specific implementation in any given case.) In most of the U.S. there is no equivalent paternity leave, so this risk (to the employer) is asymmetric.
- bch 11y agoNow I'm curious. Can you point out one (or more)?
- jonchang 11y agoHere's a recent article from The Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/whats-really-behind-the-gender-wage-gap/462363/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/whats-re...
- jrock08 11y agoWhich actually says.... Women aren't paid less because they take jobs for less money, women are paid less because men are promoted more, men dictate the location of families more, and women are encouraged to take on more of the homemaking as compared to their husbands. Oh good, we've moved past the idea that a woman doing a specific job should earn less into a much harder problem of how do we convince society that women's careers are as important as mens. edit: clarification: men dictate location of families.
- benten10 11y agoNaaahh, those OBJECTIVE TRUTHFUL REAL Vulcans have anecdotal evidence to accuse "bullshit PC research". I would like to challenge the GP to post THREE pieces of research published in a journal that you would otherwise consider prestigious, to prove your point. TO GP: There may be /are persons who argue that, of course. Don't pretend to be an 'objective'/impartial judge yourself.
- pc86 11y agoYou seem pretty angry about this.
- seansmccullough 11y agohttp://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wage-gap-myth-that-wont-die-1443654408 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wage-gap-myth-that-wont-die-...
- 11y ago
- delan 11y agoIf you only look within a given occupation, sure, the disparity isn’t as wide, but that fails to answer some important questions: why do the choices that women (or any given group) make result in them being paid less overall? Should they essentially be punished for those choices, particularly when you consider the power that money buys? Are some of the occupations that are dominated by women undervalued and underpaid, such as teaching and nursing? Consider watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV9zBAotFeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV9zBAotFeo
- microcolonel 11y agoThat's not for anyone else to decide. If I make the decision to take up painting; my economic worth will decrease. That's personal. I, as somebody who aspires to be a father some day, will try to make it worthwhile for mom; but ultimately her lifetime financial earnings will be less with kids, and that's something she will decide. As far as occupations which are "underpaid", that's up to the employees. Nurses are paid what they value their work at, if they don't want to work for that money, they don't have to. Because nurses don't mind working for what they're currently paid, they are paid that much. If they were paid less, fewer of them would do the work.
- delan 11y agoThat a person would continue to work for a given rate does not imply that they don’t mind working for that rate. There are many reasons why one might continue. They may not be trained in another occupation. They may not have the money to choose to stop working in an effort to make a statement about their rate. They may even want to continue working despite their objections about how much they’re being paid.
- pawn 11y ago"should they essentially be punished for those choices" Certain jobs are worth less than other jobs. Can we agree on this? I think it's reasonable that college education and experience allow me to earn more than someone working a job which requires neither.
- leereeves 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jccc 11y agoIs the choice of the type of work done being made by employers or by women? (Asking sincerely, not as critique.)
- samstave 11y agoTangentially related; it was stated by some that the decline in the quality of education in the US is due to women having more options for other types of work. Meaning that women were once pigeon-holed into education as a career, thus the many brilliant and smart women who pretty much had education as one of the few career paths socially available to them started to leave to other fields as equality movement opened them up. Now we have results of the people who have entered education as a field being not as high of quality than when we forced all smart women into said field.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoThey are partly shaped by society and culture.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoYet the silence on the society and culture shaping men into choosing careers that kill them is deafening.
- benten10 11y ago1. What study? Show 3 examples from reputable sources. 2. Soo... how do latina/white women magically end up in a lesser-paying profession? The counter to the 'but they like women's studies and teaching' is to remind you that women used to be a larger proportion in CS. Most people who argue for wage-equality are arguing for a more fundamental change: how come women and minorities -- the traditionally oppressed groups -- just happen to have lower-paid fields? You attempt to dismiss it by arguing that since the type of work done is different, it's not an issue worth considering.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago>2. Soo... how do latina/white women magically end up in a lesser-paying profession? For Latina's, it is an SES issue. Having poor parents negatively impacts life opportunities. As for the difference between women and men, society puts more pressure on men to be the primary income earners, which is one reason men take on vastly more dangerous jobs and work longer hours. Men are also pressured to take far less time off for children, and single men have less access to having children than single women, thus increasing the pay they earn over the lifetime of a career. >the traditionally oppressed groups -- just happen to have lower-paid fields? Why do men generally have the far more lethal fields?
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoSometimes because they choose to (select education or clerical fields). You want to tell them they're wrong? Its a free country.
- DINKDINK 11y agoThis provides some interesting perspective in wage gaps: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender... The TLDR is the strongest correlating parameter that affects wage gap is child-rearing but not necessarily gender. Given a woman doesn't step out of the work force to raise a child, she should expect to have relatively equal pay to a man. That said society constantly pressures women to be the child-rearing gender in a hetero sexual relationship.
- microcolonel 11y agoOf course, in a heterosexual relationship the often man earns for the family, and the woman can (and does, statistically) spend most of those earnings. I don't think the pressure is unjustified either; it is, after all, literally the only reason the species exists.
- gozur88 11y ago>Given a woman doesn't step out of the work force to raise a child, she should expect to have relatively equal pay to a man. Sure, as long as she puts in the same hours and is as willing to travel.
- mnglkhn2 11y agoThis proves that having children imposes an economic penalty on the mother if there are no support systems in the form of quality daycare and such. Maybe, the discourse should be how can we provide better childcare, along with safe and nurturing environments for kids when outside the home. That would convince women that it is worth it for them to remain in the workforce.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoWhen the world is overpopulated, why should we subsidize greater population? Maybe in extreme cases like Japan (but really, they should open up more to immigration), but why for elsewhere?
- mnglkhn2 11y agoYou have a point that should be up for debate. The issue though is that the real cause for income disparity between men and women is not misogyny by men. And that we should not accept the current framing of that debate. If we don't want to subsidize overpopulation, then maybe we should accept that women will sacrifice income over the wellbeing of their offspring. Something's gotta give at some point.
- baldfat 11y ago> motherhood drags female earnings down. .... Yet one minority appears immune to this scourge: lesbians. > if employers promote them on the assumption that they will not have children and so devote more time to work than straight colleagues... (Edited Some Spelling Issues SRY) This seems to be the correct empirical evidence for me. I greatly admire people with a strong work ethic BUT it usually comes down to how many priorities you have above your priority to work. I feel like I have a strong work ethic but I can not compete with single, no children workers who put work above everything else or Frank Sinatra / Jimmy Johnson (Football Coach) who placed their work above their families.
- samstave 11y agoIn my experience, lesbians may also exhibit more assertive traits in demanding fields similar to their male counterparts. Meaning that, perhaps, they are less likely to be taken more advantage of than their hetero counterparts only because of the innate disposition dynamic they create in dealing with others. To reiterate, lesbians, who are in high-functioning/demanding positions seem to be more willing/capable of standing up for them selves in negotiations in such a way that they can (apparently provenly) produce better results for themselves. TL;DR: assertive type-a behavior has its merits in negotiations, regardless of gender.
- infinite8s 11y agoIt's also interesting to consider that the way Social Security is structured - all our children will end up paying for those who don't have children.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoThose who don't have children pay to send other people's children for a K-12 education, among many other things. But thats not on topic.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoAnd those who both did and didn't have children are paying for the previous generation. The only ones to have unearned social security are the original recipients and it is too late to do much of anything about that.
- soheil 11y agoI think if people equate homosexuality with more earnings there is a real danger of people seeking it for the wrong reason. Hope this study does not encourage more women to become lesbian.
- kcarter80 11y agoWell trolled.
- soheil 11y agoHow so? Before down voting please point out the flaw in my argument.
- sarciszewski 11y agoPeople don't seek homosexuality. At least, I sure as hell didn't. (Clarification: I'm male, so technically I'd be out of scope anyway since I'm supposed to earn less because of who I am according to the article, but the point stands.)
- soheil 11y agoYes I was just wondering if there was a possibility of it after the point which this study has been released not prior to it.
- sarciszewski 11y agoIf you're wondering, try forcing yourself to sincerely be attracted to a different sex than the one you're currently attracted to.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoOr even try to force yourself to be attracted to someone you aren't attracted to regardless of sex/gender. It may happen over time on its own but you can't force that attraction into existence.
- tosseraccount 11y agoWho do you think lobbied the Supreme Court to override Congressional law? Poor people? [ What ??? You guys don't like it when you get called out on class war ???? ]
- cameron111 11y agoIt is short-sighted to celebrate the economic returns of women having no/fewer children. Consider the average contribution to the furthering of mankind over one woman's lifetime (without children, her lineage stops there), versus the potential contribution from her 100 descendants in 3 generations' time, or 1000 descendants in 5 generations' time. Unfortunately, this myopic fascination for short-term economic gain and "equality" persists, and yet we wonder why the developed world's economies are stagnating and teetering closer to failure. It's our birth rates, stupid! Besides, people are so much more than economic units, despite what our media tells us. Each part of the world has its own unique history, philosophy, art, ethnicity, food -- all handed down from our respective ancestors. And yet, we continue to march into the abyss and throw it all away for the sake of the economy; individualism and consumerism is the name of the game nowadays. There's no reason for this; we have to stop before we lose everything. (I wrote some more on this yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11076964 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11076964)
- pjc50 11y ago100 descendants in 3 generations' time, or 1000 descendants in 5 generations' time. You are vastly overestimating how many children people have. equality The way forward is not to lean on women to do huge amounts of uncompensated labour, the return of which flows to someone else.
- ChuckFrank 11y agoWith women controlling between 80 and 95 percent of household incomes, and being responsible for 85 percent of all brand purchases, worldwide, women do not do uncompensated labour. This fallacy needs to be brought to an end. (source she-conomy.com)
- ChuckFrank 11y agoI bring stats, and sources to refute baseless statements, and I get down voted. Any ideology that requires false statistics will fail. In single income families, the income is shared, the household or domestic partners work in not uncompensated. And as to expenditures, the domestic partner, primarily the female childrearer is in charge of a huge percentage of that income, for everything from vehicle purchases, vacations, furniture, clothes, etc. If I'm wrong, show proof.
- djfm 11y agoAha! So it is liking women that, in fact, explains the salary difference between genders, not being a man.
- dawnbreez 11y agoI wonder if making it less of a taboo to talk about your wages would help.