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I managed to get through college keeping the same crappy (read: None) study habits as in high school, but I've always struggled with gaining the work ethic to a

I managed to get through college keeping the same crappy (read: None) study habits as in high school, but I've always struggled with gaining the work ethic to actually work on side projects I'm interested in instead of coming home from work and playing video games all night or other vices. I've almost gained a secret terror inside myself that I am just not the type of person to have a strong enough work ethic to get into the habit of developing in my free time and its been difficult for me to self motivate, even though once I get started, I tend to enjoy programming outside of work. I get all my work done quickly and efficiently at my job, but I almost wish that I didn't have a high natural aptitude so I would have had a strong necessity to gain these skills for my personal life.

ashark 11y ago
Wow, are you me? I suspect that if I were even a little dumber (and mind you: I'm bright, but not that bright, ya know?) I'd probably be homeless instead of doing pretty damn well as a developer. Then again, maybe I'd be better motivated if couldn't achieve 7-8/10 results on a 5/10 level of effort. Only trouble is when I need to hit 9 or 10 on a deadline... Weird thing is, I have a phenomenal work ethic on projects that involve physical labor, and not just the purely mindless kind, provided I'm not the only one working on the project—if it's solely up to me to start it and follow through on my own, it won't happen until I have one of my "I feel like I can conquer the world!" days when I inexplicably feel full of energy and confidence and motivation, and I only get those a handful of times a year. Anyway, point is, that tells me it's not some pervasive defect in my very being. I can have a great work ethic, without even trying, really, under the right circumstances, and I feel good when I do—I don't work grudgingly in those cases. Curious if you've observed similar things in yourself. As for modifying my behavior and fighting laziness: I've found I've gotten a bit better at this naturally as I've grown older (now early 30s) and sometimes actually win the battle of wills with myself, but my main insight has been that if I'm serious about something I must engineer my environment for success. Sorry to say it, but if other things are taking up time you want to spend on something else, your best solution may be to mercilessly eliminate distractions as you find them while also making it easier to choose to do the things you wish you would do by putting the tools and materials you need (if any) somewhere convenient. Like, sell-your-gaming-computer/consoles—pretty extreme. Or at least put them somewhere really out of the way. Maybe find some way to unplug it all and stick it in a closet, and always put it back when you're done. It's tough, but it works. Given this discovery, I dream of a world where I can live in one house engineered for learning and productivity most of the time and another with all the distractions I enjoy the rest of the time. If only houses weren't so expensive, heh. Short of that, you can commit to only engaging in your distractions in the best possible way. "I can watch movies or TV or play video games, but only ones of high artistic merit or great significance". "If I want to switch windows away from work and read crap on my laptop, that 'crap' must be a classic from Project Gutenberg." "If I pull out my phone for no immediate purpose, the only thing I can do is run through flash cards, or Duolingo". That kind of thing. It's usually harder (though far from impossible) to over indulge with restrictions like that in place, provided you can stick to it—such media is chewier, less addictive. Doesn't make you feel as bad afterward. Steak and asparagus versus cotton candy. For my part, HN will probably have to go soon, and I may start unplugging my Internet a few days a week. I'll have to experiment with the latter, we'll see how it goes.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- nutlab 11y ago
  Well, are you me? Everything you said rings true with me. From the effort/result ratio to waiting for the "feeling" to get things done all the way to the age. I've been thinking about ways to fix this, though, I'm more looking into figuring out why I behave this way rather than how I can work around it. Seems to me like, this type of behavior stems from the childhood (up until college) where being a relatively smart person allows one to keep afloat (and even shine sometimes) without spending much effort. Then you hit college and you face the fact that you have to put the effort in, you can't just get by anymore. You sorta learn to struggle through a bit of "learning how to study" but still not at the level where you feel like you owned your studies, more like enough to get back to that 8/10 result on average. Put simply, you are now doing 5/10 effort for 8/10 results while it used to be 1-2/10 effort for the same result. Then you move on to the real world (tm) where the effort is sometimes just as important as the result. Even if that's not the case for you, you just realize 8/10 results are sometimes not enough (for your employer, for personal satisfaction, for whatever reason). This, combined with the fact that your pride now firmly lies in your level of intelligence, makes self-improvement really hard. How? First, you don't wanna do the easy stuff, because, well it's not worth your intelligence; so you dream of doing the hard stuff. Reading complicated books, learning a new language what have you. Then, you start unconsciously delaying doing/learning the hard stuff. You only do those if it's part of your job so you have to. You delay it, I think, because the fact that you may not accomplish those deeds in the short amount of time you think you should, proving yourself that you're not as smart as you think you are. That, is like the ghost at the end of the dark hallway. You don't even wanna risk getting into that state of mind. "I just don't have the time" or "I really haven't spent much effort on this" is a much better excuse for you than "I'm just not smart enough. Need to work harder/longer on this". Don't know if that's the case for you, but it feels like it is for me. I'm trying to let myself go to fix this basically. It's okay to not be brilliant. It's okay to fail, make mistakes, suck at certain things while being just okay at other things. There is no implicit need to be excellent at everything you do. More importantly, "too proud to be dumb" is a bad mindset to be in. Even if you are as smart as you think you are, you are not fully utilizing your capacity by restricting yourself due to a fear of slightest failure/mistake. That said, the ideas that you are trying sound interesting. Maybe they could also help taming this subconscious beast by my conscious idealist.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ashark 11y ago

Wow, are you me? I suspect that if I were even a little dumber (and mind you: I'm bright, but not that bright, ya know?) I'd probably be homeless instead of doing pretty damn well as a developer. Then again, maybe I'd be better motivated if couldn't achieve 7-8/10 results on a 5/10 level of effort. Only trouble is when I need to hit 9 or 10 on a deadline... Weird thing is, I have a phenomenal work ethic on projects that involve physical labor, and not just the purely mindless kind, provided I'm not the only one working on the project—if it's solely up to me to start it and follow through on my own, it won't happen until I have one of my "I feel like I can conquer the world!" days when I inexplicably feel full of energy and confidence and motivation, and I only get those a handful of times a year. Anyway, point is, that tells me it's not some pervasive defect in my very being. I can have a great work ethic, without even trying, really, under the right circumstances, and I feel good when I do—I don't work grudgingly in those cases. Curious if you've observed similar things in yourself. As for modifying my behavior and fighting laziness: I've found I've gotten a bit better at this naturally as I've grown older (now early 30s) and sometimes actually win the battle of wills with myself, but my main insight has been that if I'm serious about something I must engineer my environment for success. Sorry to say it, but if other things are taking up time you want to spend on something else, your best solution may be to mercilessly eliminate distractions as you find them while also making it easier to choose to do the things you wish you would do by putting the tools and materials you need (if any) somewhere convenient. Like, sell-your-gaming-computer/consoles—pretty extreme. Or at least put them somewhere really out of the way. Maybe find some way to unplug it all and stick it in a closet, and always put it back when you're done. It's tough, but it works. Given this discovery, I dream of a world where I can live in one house engineered for learning and productivity most of the time and another with all the distractions I enjoy the rest of the time. If only houses weren't so expensive, heh. Short of that, you can commit to only engaging in your distractions in the best possible way. "I can watch movies or TV or play video games, but only ones of high artistic merit or great significance". "If I want to switch windows away from work and read crap on my laptop, that 'crap' must be a classic from Project Gutenberg." "If I pull out my phone for no immediate purpose, the only thing I can do is run through flash cards, or Duolingo". That kind of thing. It's usually harder (though far from impossible) to over indulge with restrictions like that in place, provided you can stick to it—such media is chewier, less addictive. Doesn't make you feel as bad afterward. Steak and asparagus versus cotton candy. For my part, HN will probably have to go soon, and I may start unplugging my Internet a few days a week. I'll have to experiment with the latter, we'll see how it goes.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
nutlab 11y ago
Well, are you me? Everything you said rings true with me. From the effort/result ratio to waiting for the "feeling" to get things done all the way to the age. I've been thinking about ways to fix this, though, I'm more looking into figuring out why I behave this way rather than how I can work around it. Seems to me like, this type of behavior stems from the childhood (up until college) where being a relatively smart person allows one to keep afloat (and even shine sometimes) without spending much effort. Then you hit college and you face the fact that you have to put the effort in, you can't just get by anymore. You sorta learn to struggle through a bit of "learning how to study" but still not at the level where you feel like you owned your studies, more like enough to get back to that 8/10 result on average. Put simply, you are now doing 5/10 effort for 8/10 results while it used to be 1-2/10 effort for the same result. Then you move on to the real world (tm) where the effort is sometimes just as important as the result. Even if that's not the case for you, you just realize 8/10 results are sometimes not enough (for your employer, for personal satisfaction, for whatever reason). This, combined with the fact that your pride now firmly lies in your level of intelligence, makes self-improvement really hard. How? First, you don't wanna do the easy stuff, because, well it's not worth your intelligence; so you dream of doing the hard stuff. Reading complicated books, learning a new language what have you. Then, you start unconsciously delaying doing/learning the hard stuff. You only do those if it's part of your job so you have to. You delay it, I think, because the fact that you may not accomplish those deeds in the short amount of time you think you should, proving yourself that you're not as smart as you think you are. That, is like the ghost at the end of the dark hallway. You don't even wanna risk getting into that state of mind. "I just don't have the time" or "I really haven't spent much effort on this" is a much better excuse for you than "I'm just not smart enough. Need to work harder/longer on this". Don't know if that's the case for you, but it feels like it is for me. I'm trying to let myself go to fix this basically. It's okay to not be brilliant. It's okay to fail, make mistakes, suck at certain things while being just okay at other things. There is no implicit need to be excellent at everything you do. More importantly, "too proud to be dumb" is a bad mindset to be in. Even if you are as smart as you think you are, you are not fully utilizing your capacity by restricting yourself due to a fear of slightest failure/mistake. That said, the ideas that you are trying sound interesting. Maybe they could also help taming this subconscious beast by my conscious idealist.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]