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Was he at all correct in thinking that this applied to Torvalds? Time seems to have proven that ESR was completely off-base.
by no_wave 11y ago
Was he at all correct in thinking that this applied to Torvalds? Time seems to have proven that ESR was completely off-base.
- ktRolster 11y agoIf Linus really wasn't using source control at that time, then yes, he was correct lol
- girvo 11y agoLinus did change his approach, somewhat, slightly. Linux kernel development is less of the wild-west that it used to be, at least. Heck, Linus ended up writing git!
- gansai 11y agoalmost felt the same thing. Felt as if this mail by Eric kind of subconsciously forced Linus to write git.
- watmough 11y agoGuilting Linus into writing Git. What a thing!
- iolothebard 11y agoNo this helped him move to BitKeeper.
- toyg 11y agoTo be fair, Linus did change. That charge about not valuing version control and systematic release practices? He built git in 2005. Kernel release practices are now a well-oiled machine. And overall the kernel has likely got more modular, not less, over the years (although I have not had a look in a while, but that was the trend a few years ago). ESR might have been wrong on the specific item at hand (I have not read the whole thread, and he, ESR was wrong on a lot of things over the years) but some of his arguments are definitely right - at least seen from a "gifted something" who flopped in uni ;)
- qb45 11y agoBut was it due to ESR's ramblings or due to patches overflowing his inbox capacity? Personally, for years I had been completely ignoring everybody who framed something as "a better alternative to talent" (wtf?) or said the magic words "you are smarter than me". They correlated too well with "stupid ideas I knew (or quickly checked) to be wrong". Nowadays I'm trying to fish for useful information even in messages which push my bullshit-o-meter out of scale, but it takes work. If you want to maximize your chance of being treated seriously, stick to constructive arguments about the problem at hand, not some generic unfalsifiable wisdom.
- lilbobbytables 11y agoThe reason for that way of phrasing is because it appeals to ego. If you want someone to do something, particularly someone with a known ego, then this is an effective way to get them to listen to you and not dismiss you. Of course, there's a fine line between stroking and patronizing, though.
- qb45 11y agoNo, it's a trap. It works until you get to those with really big egos who take pride in dismantling such tricks and gaming others by pretending to fall for their games. These need higher levels of gaming. But in the end, if you truly think that something is a good idea for everyone involved, just explain why.
- jschwartzi 11y agoWhenever someone accuses me of being smart I take it as an insult because they usually mean I'm not communicating at a useful level for them.
- mcv 11y agoEven before git, he started using BitKeeper in 2002. I guess Linux realized he couldn't continue without some more structure. Even if he didn't need it, other developers do.
- Vivtek 11y agoPossibly Torvalds can learn from good advice, then?
- st3v3r 11y agoDid it? Or was this part of a wakeup call that Torvalds needed to change things? If this exchange, or a similar one, had not taken place, would things be the way they are today? Or would the predictions of this email have come to fruition?