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It seems to me that suicide in tech is talked about a lot (more than in any other profession, except for maybe armed forces), but I have never seen data that it

It seems to me that suicide in tech is talked about a lot (more than in any other profession, except for maybe armed forces), but I have never seen data that it is any more common than in other professions. Can anyone point to some actual data on that?

awqrre 11y ago
I've heard that the more that you talk about it, the more it is likely to happen...
- Mz 11y ago
  As someone who has attempted suicide and been hospitalized twice for being suicidal, I will suggest that how you talk about it is a huge factor in whether it makes it more likely or less likely.
  - Perihelion 11y ago
    Agreed. I think the stigma around mental illness has a lot to do with how people react to it. Society tells us it's embarrassing and a sign of weakness and many people suffer in silence until it's too late. Fortunately this industry appears to be more open about it.
    - Mz 11y ago
      I cannot wait until we stop using the term "mental illness" entirely. I have a serious medical condition. It is classified as a dread disease because enduring it is horrible. I also was molested and raped as a child. On the one hand, some of my suicidal tendencies are rooted in physical, chemical side effects of what my condition does to my brain. On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing crazy about wanting my suffering to end and feeling like death is the only answer. And it pisses me off, because it doesn't have to be that way. But that is a rant I do not even want to get into at the moment.
      - autoreleasepool 11y ago
        Nonexistence doesn't end suffering. You need to live in the moment. Your life is precious. I hope you feel better
        unimpressive 11y ago
        Do the parent a favor and spare her this kind of patronizing bullshit. EDIT: s/him/her
        gkop 11y ago
        Mz is a her, FYI.
        autoreleasepool 11y ago
        That's such a rude assumption. I have OCD as I've discussed here before. I've been there, so that's where I was coming from. but next time I'll just say nothing
        Mz 11y ago
        OCD does not begin to compare to what I suffer. Look up cystic fibrosis. It has an average life expectancy of about 37 in the U.S. It impairs gut function and lung function and immune function. Most people with it struggle to achieve a normal healthy weight while eating twice as much as others and it accounts for something like one third of adult lung transplants and one half of pediatric lung transplants. Telling me you hope I feel better is the kind of thing that absolutely is best left unsaid. I am, in fact, gradually feeling better because I have, in fact, figured out how to fix my body. This gets me nothing but shit on by other people, who accuse me of being crazy and a teller of tall tales. Do not assume your suffering begins to compare to mine. It most likely does not. And do not ever tell someone you hope they feel better when they are talking about being suicidal if you do not have concrete suggestions for helping them actually feel better. It just comes across as incredibly obnoxious. (Yes, I am a Pollyanna who has done similar things in the past. I try to offer solutions these days, not empty wishes.)
- tedks 11y ago
  This is getting downvoted, but it is in fact true. Copycat suicides are a very real phenomenon. In general, anything that heightens the mental availability of an action (how easy it is to recall) increases the probability of that action occurring. This causes news reports on suicides to increase incidence of suicide, news reports on mass shootings to increase incidence of mass shootings, and last but certainly not least controversially, violent actions in video games to be causally related to (though neither necessary, nor sufficient for) increases in violent behavior. This is a basic fact of human neurology that many people have trouble accepting because of the illusion of free will they like to indulge in.
  - Mz 11y ago
    Yeah, no. It is not that simple. "News" tends to be sensationalist crap. Simply talking about it does not have to make it more likely. I do realize that it can make it more likely. But it depends a helluva lot on how that conversation happens. Just because a lot of people fuck it up doesn't mean that speaking about it is the cause per se. Words have power for both good and evil. Please, let's not promote the idea that we should be terrified of mentioning it. That deepens the problem. Please do not do that.
  - jonesb6 11y ago
    I believe you were down-voted because you made a somewhat bold claim without providing evidence. The idea that mass-shooting copycats === suicide copycats is extreme, because they are two very different phenomenas. Do you have anything that could back it up?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - whitegrape 11y ago
    This is mostly true, but I don't think the evidence is there for videogames. What you might find evidence for w.r.t videogames is that they'll change your behavioral responses under stress, for example having played many shooter games, and given a real gun, then put in a stressful situation, you're more likely to pull the trigger on another human than otherwise. For mass shooting, absolutely true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4 (Skip to 1:30 if you want an argument from authority.) I suspect it's true for suicides as well. People underestimate copycat / monkey-see-monkey-do influences.
trafficjam30125 11y ago
Many of the "mysterious" deaths that hit people under 50 in this field are, in fact, suicides. Programmers don't seem to have a higher rate than anyone else, although there is a lot of burnout due to aggressive cultures. Founders have a very high suicide rate, and the worst thing about it is that it tends to be the few decent founders (not the douchebags in the tech press) who pop off. The problem is that VCs all talk to each other and decide who to fund, so if you fall out with that crowd, you don't get another startup and your career is ruined. Consequently, a lot of founders get driven to take obscene risks with their companies (that they wouldn't take if they hadn't given up control) and get hit on the downside (lots of work, no payoff).

awqrre 11y ago

I've heard that the more that you talk about it, the more it is likely to happen...

Mz 11y ago
As someone who has attempted suicide and been hospitalized twice for being suicidal, I will suggest that how you talk about it is a huge factor in whether it makes it more likely or less likely.
- Perihelion 11y ago
  Agreed. I think the stigma around mental illness has a lot to do with how people react to it. Society tells us it's embarrassing and a sign of weakness and many people suffer in silence until it's too late. Fortunately this industry appears to be more open about it.
  - Mz 11y ago
    I cannot wait until we stop using the term "mental illness" entirely. I have a serious medical condition. It is classified as a dread disease because enduring it is horrible. I also was molested and raped as a child. On the one hand, some of my suicidal tendencies are rooted in physical, chemical side effects of what my condition does to my brain. On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing crazy about wanting my suffering to end and feeling like death is the only answer. And it pisses me off, because it doesn't have to be that way. But that is a rant I do not even want to get into at the moment.
    - autoreleasepool 11y ago
      Nonexistence doesn't end suffering. You need to live in the moment. Your life is precious. I hope you feel better
      - unimpressive 11y ago
        Do the parent a favor and spare her this kind of patronizing bullshit. EDIT: s/him/her
        gkop 11y ago
        Mz is a her, FYI.
        autoreleasepool 11y ago
        That's such a rude assumption. I have OCD as I've discussed here before. I've been there, so that's where I was coming from. but next time I'll just say nothing
        Mz 11y ago
        OCD does not begin to compare to what I suffer. Look up cystic fibrosis. It has an average life expectancy of about 37 in the U.S. It impairs gut function and lung function and immune function. Most people with it struggle to achieve a normal healthy weight while eating twice as much as others and it accounts for something like one third of adult lung transplants and one half of pediatric lung transplants. Telling me you hope I feel better is the kind of thing that absolutely is best left unsaid. I am, in fact, gradually feeling better because I have, in fact, figured out how to fix my body. This gets me nothing but shit on by other people, who accuse me of being crazy and a teller of tall tales. Do not assume your suffering begins to compare to mine. It most likely does not. And do not ever tell someone you hope they feel better when they are talking about being suicidal if you do not have concrete suggestions for helping them actually feel better. It just comes across as incredibly obnoxious. (Yes, I am a Pollyanna who has done similar things in the past. I try to offer solutions these days, not empty wishes.)
tedks 11y ago
This is getting downvoted, but it is in fact true. Copycat suicides are a very real phenomenon. In general, anything that heightens the mental availability of an action (how easy it is to recall) increases the probability of that action occurring. This causes news reports on suicides to increase incidence of suicide, news reports on mass shootings to increase incidence of mass shootings, and last but certainly not least controversially, violent actions in video games to be causally related to (though neither necessary, nor sufficient for) increases in violent behavior. This is a basic fact of human neurology that many people have trouble accepting because of the illusion of free will they like to indulge in.
- Mz 11y ago
  Yeah, no. It is not that simple. "News" tends to be sensationalist crap. Simply talking about it does not have to make it more likely. I do realize that it can make it more likely. But it depends a helluva lot on how that conversation happens. Just because a lot of people fuck it up doesn't mean that speaking about it is the cause per se. Words have power for both good and evil. Please, let's not promote the idea that we should be terrified of mentioning it. That deepens the problem. Please do not do that.
- jonesb6 11y ago
  I believe you were down-voted because you made a somewhat bold claim without providing evidence. The idea that mass-shooting copycats === suicide copycats is extreme, because they are two very different phenomenas. Do you have anything that could back it up?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- whitegrape 11y ago
  This is mostly true, but I don't think the evidence is there for videogames. What you might find evidence for w.r.t videogames is that they'll change your behavioral responses under stress, for example having played many shooter games, and given a real gun, then put in a stressful situation, you're more likely to pull the trigger on another human than otherwise. For mass shooting, absolutely true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4 (Skip to 1:30 if you want an argument from authority.) I suspect it's true for suicides as well. People underestimate copycat / monkey-see-monkey-do influences.

trafficjam30125 11y ago

Many of the "mysterious" deaths that hit people under 50 in this field are, in fact, suicides. Programmers don't seem to have a higher rate than anyone else, although there is a lot of burnout due to aggressive cultures. Founders have a very high suicide rate, and the worst thing about it is that it tends to be the few decent founders (not the douchebags in the tech press) who pop off. The problem is that VCs all talk to each other and decide who to fund, so if you fall out with that crowd, you don't get another startup and your career is ruined. Consequently, a lot of founders get driven to take obscene risks with their companies (that they wouldn't take if they hadn't given up control) and get hit on the downside (lots of work, no payoff).