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I think understand your perspective. I just disagree with your contention that this story should be taken at face value or understood in a narrow context. I see

I think understand your perspective. I just disagree with your contention that this story should be taken at face value or understood in a narrow context. I see this story as part of a more broad discussion about identity politics so I think what I wrote is within the purview of that discussion.

tptacek 11y ago
Perhaps you could come up with a way to express your concerns about identity politics without imputing concerns to the subjects of this story that those people clearly do not have.
- hnamazon123 11y ago
  I can only speculate on what I would feel if I were in their shoes given my own circumstances. How is that not a reasonable way to start a discussion? I recognize that I will never fully understand the perspective of a black woman, however I still live in the same society as black women and must live with the consequences of identity politics whatever my relationship with identity is. I am not a black woman so what would be a reasonable way to approach this story and its wider social implications? I suspect you simply don't approve of this discussion taking place.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    You are not a member of a statistically underrepresented population in software engineering, so when you decide to describe how you would feel if you were allowed to participate in an event because of your background, you should be more careful to add the disclaimer that your circumstances are not representative of these people's. My issue is not that you chose to describe your own feelings, though I feel like those feelings are pretty banal and uninteresting. My issue is that you chose to share those feelings by reframing someone else's feelings. You would be uncomfortable. These people are not. Your circumstances are so different from theirs that we can safely assume there are plenty of valid reasons why they feel differently.
    - hnamazon123 11y ago
      See I don't think it's completely safe to assume that the reasons are valid for one or more reasonable definitions of valid. That to me is what's interesting to discuss. A cis-gendered heterosexual male WASP's perspective on this would still be a reasonable jumping off point for discussion to me. I simply offer my perspective as a Jew because at least it gives me some iota of room to criticize identity politics in the minds of people who believe deeply in identity politics.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        I don't know that I agree, but I think if all the exposition in this thread between the two of us were captured in your original comment, I wouldn't have been so moved to reply to it.

tptacek 11y ago

Perhaps you could come up with a way to express your concerns about identity politics without imputing concerns to the subjects of this story that those people clearly do not have.

hnamazon123 11y ago
I can only speculate on what I would feel if I were in their shoes given my own circumstances. How is that not a reasonable way to start a discussion? I recognize that I will never fully understand the perspective of a black woman, however I still live in the same society as black women and must live with the consequences of identity politics whatever my relationship with identity is. I am not a black woman so what would be a reasonable way to approach this story and its wider social implications? I suspect you simply don't approve of this discussion taking place.
- tptacek 11y ago
  You are not a member of a statistically underrepresented population in software engineering, so when you decide to describe how you would feel if you were allowed to participate in an event because of your background, you should be more careful to add the disclaimer that your circumstances are not representative of these people's. My issue is not that you chose to describe your own feelings, though I feel like those feelings are pretty banal and uninteresting. My issue is that you chose to share those feelings by reframing someone else's feelings. You would be uncomfortable. These people are not. Your circumstances are so different from theirs that we can safely assume there are plenty of valid reasons why they feel differently.
  - hnamazon123 11y ago
    See I don't think it's completely safe to assume that the reasons are valid for one or more reasonable definitions of valid. That to me is what's interesting to discuss. A cis-gendered heterosexual male WASP's perspective on this would still be a reasonable jumping off point for discussion to me. I simply offer my perspective as a Jew because at least it gives me some iota of room to criticize identity politics in the minds of people who believe deeply in identity politics.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      I don't know that I agree, but I think if all the exposition in this thread between the two of us were captured in your original comment, I wouldn't have been so moved to reply to it.