3 ms·

I'm not sure your analogy between programming languages and spoken languages supports your point. Pretty sure the best way to learn a new language involves lots

by kough 11y ago

I'm not sure your analogy between programming languages and spoken languages supports your point. Pretty sure the best way to learn a new language involves lots of time practicing speaking. The analogy would then support trying to program as much as possible in a new language, rather than just reading books about it. Not sure if this was supposed to be a joke; I thought it was fairly well established that it's common and even encouraged for new programmers to start exploring and writing programs as soon as possible. Am I misinterpreting your comment?

Mithaldu 11y ago
> Pretty sure the best way to learn a new language involves lots of time practicing speaking. It isn't. It really isn't. :) While it is a big part, and necessary if you actually want to talk to people, in terms of time spent it is much more important to get the vocabulary in and as much exposure to expressions of the language by competent users as possible. That's why people recommend travelling to where a language one wants to learn is spoken; not because one must speak it there as well, but because one hears and reads it there everywhere.
- kough 11y ago
  I dont think we're disagreeing. I don't suggest speaking practice to the exclusion of literary practice. In this comment you acknowledge the importance of speaking practice. That's what was missing from my reading of your first comment. I responded largely because I understood your comment to suggest (explicitly and through analogy) that new programmers study books before attempting to write code and interact with the community. Cheers, sorry for the confusion.
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    Actually, i do. Completely. I acknowledge practicing is important, but attempting to write code before having gone through a full book and having read some real world code is only going to be damaging for a new learner. Plus, newbies who refuse to actually read a book front-to-end annoy the ever-living shit out of help channel people, because they end up asking all the stuff that the book would explain fo them, and the chat people end up being nothing but an interactive and abusive book.
    - ktRolster 11y ago
      "The only true way is with Dijkstra's programming textbook that starts with proofs." It will prevent you from becoming braindamaged from BASIC (or Python :) ) http://www.amazon.com/Method-Programming-Edsger-W-Dijkstra/dp/0201175363 http://www.amazon.com/Method-Programming-Edsger-W-Dijkstra/d...

by kough 11y ago

Mithaldu 11y ago

> Pretty sure the best way to learn a new language involves lots of time practicing speaking. It isn't. It really isn't. :) While it is a big part, and necessary if you actually want to talk to people, in terms of time spent it is much more important to get the vocabulary in and as much exposure to expressions of the language by competent users as possible. That's why people recommend travelling to where a language one wants to learn is spoken; not because one must speak it there as well, but because one hears and reads it there everywhere.

kough 11y ago
I dont think we're disagreeing. I don't suggest speaking practice to the exclusion of literary practice. In this comment you acknowledge the importance of speaking practice. That's what was missing from my reading of your first comment. I responded largely because I understood your comment to suggest (explicitly and through analogy) that new programmers study books before attempting to write code and interact with the community. Cheers, sorry for the confusion.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Actually, i do. Completely. I acknowledge practicing is important, but attempting to write code before having gone through a full book and having read some real world code is only going to be damaging for a new learner. Plus, newbies who refuse to actually read a book front-to-end annoy the ever-living shit out of help channel people, because they end up asking all the stuff that the book would explain fo them, and the chat people end up being nothing but an interactive and abusive book.
  - ktRolster 11y ago
    "The only true way is with Dijkstra's programming textbook that starts with proofs." It will prevent you from becoming braindamaged from BASIC (or Python :) ) http://www.amazon.com/Method-Programming-Edsger-W-Dijkstra/dp/0201175363 http://www.amazon.com/Method-Programming-Edsger-W-Dijkstra/d...