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> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I men

> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I mention that I have an issue with income taxation. Not at all - like your friend, I'm rather selective about where I donate my money - to causes that matter to me. I'm a generous person and consider the coercion of the state to be neither altruistic nor efficient.

1stop 11y ago
So you took advantage of a system paid for by others and then decided you wouldn't contribute back. That's fine, but also pretty much the definition of greedy/selfish. Regardless what your "hardship" story maybe, it would have been harder if everyone acted the way you do now.
- cpursley 11y ago
  What? I haven't taken advantage of anyone. I file and pay my taxes like everyone else. It's just that dropping bombs on impoverished people and bailing out corporations do not align with my personal values. How does this make me greedy?
  - __P 11y ago
    But you are cherry picking outcomes. Does a police force, an army, a functioning society align with your personal values? I agree government make mistakes, but that isn't an argument for getting rid of government, that's an argument for getting rid of mistakes.
    - cpursley 11y ago
      I didn't say get rid of government. There are plenty of nations with functioning societies and services ranging from those with zero income tax to a flat tax.
      - 1stop 11y ago
        ... Zero income tax? Care to name one. I would hazard a guess they derive revenue from some other source as their middle class is either non existent or they have piles of oil. So you are saying you want higher business tax? Or a flat tax rate... How does the mechanism of tax relate to your view of coercion though? Isn't it coercion regardless the rate?
- dang 11y ago
  That crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed on HN.
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saalweachter 11y ago
I'm honestly more offended by the implications that bureuacracy is a poor value proposition. Social security has minuscule overhead, government healthcare has far lower $ / covered individual than most private insurances with equal or greater satisfaction rates, while a number of private philanthropies piss away a large % of their receipts on fundraising & administrative overheads.
- ctlby 11y ago
  Bureaucracy does tend towards bloat and failure, both in the private or public sectors. I can quibble with your examples (I don't think they're appropriate), but even if we allow that they are indeed successes, for each one I can find a handful of very consequential failures (DoD, VHA, HUD, etc). Consider especially where government is tasked with providing a service, instead of shuffling money around to pay for it. This is admittedly a US-centric perspective, but why should I want to trade our poor governance for, say, European institutions with their attendant sclerosis?
glass55 11y ago
The problem is often how the money has been made at first place. Bill Gates might be the biggest philanthropist in the world he didn't think about ethics that much when he ran Microsoft like the mob.

1stop 11y ago

So you took advantage of a system paid for by others and then decided you wouldn't contribute back. That's fine, but also pretty much the definition of greedy/selfish. Regardless what your "hardship" story maybe, it would have been harder if everyone acted the way you do now.

cpursley 11y ago
What? I haven't taken advantage of anyone. I file and pay my taxes like everyone else. It's just that dropping bombs on impoverished people and bailing out corporations do not align with my personal values. How does this make me greedy?
- __P 11y ago
  But you are cherry picking outcomes. Does a police force, an army, a functioning society align with your personal values? I agree government make mistakes, but that isn't an argument for getting rid of government, that's an argument for getting rid of mistakes.
  - cpursley 11y ago
    I didn't say get rid of government. There are plenty of nations with functioning societies and services ranging from those with zero income tax to a flat tax.
    - 1stop 11y ago
      ... Zero income tax? Care to name one. I would hazard a guess they derive revenue from some other source as their middle class is either non existent or they have piles of oil. So you are saying you want higher business tax? Or a flat tax rate... How does the mechanism of tax relate to your view of coercion though? Isn't it coercion regardless the rate?
dang 11y ago
That crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed on HN.
- deleted 11y ago
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saalweachter 11y ago

I'm honestly more offended by the implications that bureuacracy is a poor value proposition. Social security has minuscule overhead, government healthcare has far lower $ / covered individual than most private insurances with equal or greater satisfaction rates, while a number of private philanthropies piss away a large % of their receipts on fundraising & administrative overheads.

ctlby 11y ago
Bureaucracy does tend towards bloat and failure, both in the private or public sectors. I can quibble with your examples (I don't think they're appropriate), but even if we allow that they are indeed successes, for each one I can find a handful of very consequential failures (DoD, VHA, HUD, etc). Consider especially where government is tasked with providing a service, instead of shuffling money around to pay for it. This is admittedly a US-centric perspective, but why should I want to trade our poor governance for, say, European institutions with their attendant sclerosis?

glass55 11y ago

The problem is often how the money has been made at first place. Bill Gates might be the biggest philanthropist in the world he didn't think about ethics that much when he ran Microsoft like the mob.