5 ms·

So, I know a us born billionaire who rescinded his citizenship last year to avoid fatca. He has successfully evaded both the US and UK tax authorities to the t

So, I know a us born billionaire who rescinded his citizenship last year to avoid fatca. He has successfully evaded both the US and UK tax authorities to the tune of half a billion or so, he tells me. The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats. So. Anyone who tells you fatca has been a success is full of it. It penalises "normal" people, and the evaders keep on evading. Uruguay is where they've all now got citizenship.

paulsutter 11y ago
He had to pay an exit tax on all his unrealized gains at the moment of rescinding citizenship, so it's almost certain that his taxes were much higher if he did so last year. Details please, or it didn't happen. Just for your own information: tax avoidance is legal and expected. Tax evasion is criminal and can result in prison. The distinction is that tax evasion is when you misrepresent the facts in your tax filings.
- bmelton 11y ago
  To my knowledge, the exit tax didn't exist before 2008.
sklivvz1971 11y ago
Billions are never "hard earned". Do the math :-)
- BuckRogers 11y ago
  Yeah those must be some very long nights in the office. Makes me wonder where my billions went the many days I worked 9AM-3:30AM launching websites. Lost my sanity and health, but didn't even receive my million. Can't imagine how hard a billionaire worked.
youngtaff 11y ago
>He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats. Yeh, but guess he likes driving on roads and making use of many of the other public services taxes pay for
- vetinari 11y ago
  Well, I guess that he cannot avoid the taxes on fuel either.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Actually, doesn't own a car, and spends most of his time in third world nations doing said philanthropy - but I'm not here to talk about his relative merits, just that fatca is ineffectual.
  - StevePerkins 11y ago
    To recap: [1] Random person on Hacker News personally "knows" a billionaire. [2] Billionaire renounced U.S. citizenship without having to realize any significant capitals gains. [3] Billionaire doesn't own a car. He just spends his time touring Africa, solving AIDS or malaria like Bono or Bill Gates. [4] Billionaire has a secret lair, from which he dresses up in a costume and fights crime by night. I could be making some of these up. I started to have serious doubts right at [1], and completely got off the train by [2].
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    so he just earned all his money without using any government built/administrated infrastructure or any technology that was developed using government/tax money or any common good? I'm impressed. Must be hard developing your own internet, electrical network, build your own road infrastructure, legal system and police enforcement, schools and hospitals for your employees and in the end still end up billionaire. As much as we like or dislike it, as a matter of fact we all use common goods and services provided by the government. For better or worse.
cpursley 11y ago
> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I mention that I have an issue with income taxation. Not at all - like your friend, I'm rather selective about where I donate my money - to causes that matter to me. I'm a generous person and consider the coercion of the state to be neither altruistic nor efficient.
- 1stop 11y ago
  So you took advantage of a system paid for by others and then decided you wouldn't contribute back. That's fine, but also pretty much the definition of greedy/selfish. Regardless what your "hardship" story maybe, it would have been harder if everyone acted the way you do now.
  - cpursley 11y ago
    What? I haven't taken advantage of anyone. I file and pay my taxes like everyone else. It's just that dropping bombs on impoverished people and bailing out corporations do not align with my personal values. How does this make me greedy?
    - __P 11y ago
      But you are cherry picking outcomes. Does a police force, an army, a functioning society align with your personal values? I agree government make mistakes, but that isn't an argument for getting rid of government, that's an argument for getting rid of mistakes.
      - cpursley 11y ago
        I didn't say get rid of government. There are plenty of nations with functioning societies and services ranging from those with zero income tax to a flat tax.
        1stop 11y ago
XorNot 11y ago
Also the classic way people go down for tax fraud is migrating countries, earning income, but then paying no tax to either.

paulsutter 11y ago

He had to pay an exit tax on all his unrealized gains at the moment of rescinding citizenship, so it's almost certain that his taxes were much higher if he did so last year. Details please, or it didn't happen. Just for your own information: tax avoidance is legal and expected. Tax evasion is criminal and can result in prison. The distinction is that tax evasion is when you misrepresent the facts in your tax filings.

bmelton 11y ago
To my knowledge, the exit tax didn't exist before 2008.

sklivvz1971 11y ago

Billions are never "hard earned". Do the math :-)

BuckRogers 11y ago
Yeah those must be some very long nights in the office. Makes me wonder where my billions went the many days I worked 9AM-3:30AM launching websites. Lost my sanity and health, but didn't even receive my million. Can't imagine how hard a billionaire worked.

youngtaff 11y ago

>He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats. Yeh, but guess he likes driving on roads and making use of many of the other public services taxes pay for

vetinari 11y ago
Well, I guess that he cannot avoid the taxes on fuel either.
madaxe_again 11y ago
Actually, doesn't own a car, and spends most of his time in third world nations doing said philanthropy - but I'm not here to talk about his relative merits, just that fatca is ineffectual.
- StevePerkins 11y ago
  To recap: [1] Random person on Hacker News personally "knows" a billionaire. [2] Billionaire renounced U.S. citizenship without having to realize any significant capitals gains. [3] Billionaire doesn't own a car. He just spends his time touring Africa, solving AIDS or malaria like Bono or Bill Gates. [4] Billionaire has a secret lair, from which he dresses up in a costume and fights crime by night. I could be making some of these up. I started to have serious doubts right at [1], and completely got off the train by [2].
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- Xylakant 11y ago
  so he just earned all his money without using any government built/administrated infrastructure or any technology that was developed using government/tax money or any common good? I'm impressed. Must be hard developing your own internet, electrical network, build your own road infrastructure, legal system and police enforcement, schools and hospitals for your employees and in the end still end up billionaire. As much as we like or dislike it, as a matter of fact we all use common goods and services provided by the government. For better or worse.

cpursley 11y ago

> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I mention that I have an issue with income taxation. Not at all - like your friend, I'm rather selective about where I donate my money - to causes that matter to me. I'm a generous person and consider the coercion of the state to be neither altruistic nor efficient.

1stop 11y ago
So you took advantage of a system paid for by others and then decided you wouldn't contribute back. That's fine, but also pretty much the definition of greedy/selfish. Regardless what your "hardship" story maybe, it would have been harder if everyone acted the way you do now.
- cpursley 11y ago
  What? I haven't taken advantage of anyone. I file and pay my taxes like everyone else. It's just that dropping bombs on impoverished people and bailing out corporations do not align with my personal values. How does this make me greedy?
  - __P 11y ago
    But you are cherry picking outcomes. Does a police force, an army, a functioning society align with your personal values? I agree government make mistakes, but that isn't an argument for getting rid of government, that's an argument for getting rid of mistakes.
    - cpursley 11y ago
      I didn't say get rid of government. There are plenty of nations with functioning societies and services ranging from those with zero income tax to a flat tax.
      - 1stop 11y ago

XorNot 11y ago

Also the classic way people go down for tax fraud is migrating countries, earning income, but then paying no tax to either.