4 ms·

> Food for thought for those who think the drug war was/is driven by the "establishment" rather than by the grass roots of ordinary voters. Are you implying th

> Food for thought for those who think the drug war was/is driven by the "establishment" rather than by the grass roots of ordinary voters. Are you implying that grassroots voters have been dictating drug policy despite the concerns of the "establishment"? I'm curious to hear more about this history.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
For the longest time, voters were the ones supporting the war on drugs. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/14/6-facts-about-marijuana/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/14/6-facts-abou... "A slim majority (53%) of Americans say the drug should be made legal, compared with 44% who want it to be illegal. Opinions have changed drastically since 1969, when Gallup first asked the question and found that just 12% favored legalizing marijuana use. Much of the change in opinion has occurred over the past few years — support rose 11 points between 2010 and 2013 (although it has remained relatively unchanged since then)."
- Retric 11y ago
  That's not support for the war on drugs. I think LSD should be illegal, but be a misdemeanor with a minor fine. Actual support for long prison terms for 'minor' crimes has always been fairly low. But, you can get wide swings based on how you phrase the question. Remember people say tough on crime, not here is what I want to do and this is how much it's going to cost.
  - aparent 11y ago
    >I think LSD should be illegal Out of interest, why do you think this?
    - Retric 11y ago
      It might be fine at low usage levels. But, I have known a few heavy users who where harmed by it. I don't expect being a minor fine will have a significant effect, but it is likely to discourage some people which IMO is a good thing.
      - pstuart 11y ago
        My point is that all drugs have risks and harms associated with them. Criminalizing them in anyway is the wrong way to address that (and it's historically never been the real reason for doing so -- it's been about oppression of minorities and dissidents).
  - facetube 11y ago
    Why should someone have to pay a fine to control their own cognition in the privacy of their own home at their own expense and risk?
    - Retric 11y ago
      It's not going to prevent prevent people from using in the privacy of there own home. It would discourage people though, and with long term negative effects for many users that's probably a good thing IMO.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - pstuart 11y ago
    Since you are obviously concerned about public safety, I presume you're for making alcohol illegal as well?
    - Retric 11y ago
      Alcohol is way to easy to manufacture on the sly. I would be in favor of limiting how strong you can make alcohol without paying a prohibitive tax. AKA, buying higher proof should not be the cheaper way to drink.
- chishaku 11y ago
  Most people supported the invasion of Iraq [0] but I wouldn't say it was the voters that led the US to war. [0]: http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans...
marcoperaza 11y ago
I'd venture a guess that many more politicians in Congress and elsewhere are aware of how stupid drug prohibition is than will publicly admit it. Remember, a lot of them are genuine intellectuals, with some of the sharpest young policy experts in the country working for them. Politics is the art of the possible, and ending drug prohibition is a political nonstarter right now. Unfortunately, the weed legalization movement has been succeeding with the "weed isn't that bad for you" message, which is a half-truth that will undermine further liberalization, and has failed to shift the debate regarding the War on Drugs overall. The good arguments for ending the drug war, which the general public is not aware of, are: 1) Prohibition empowers violent criminal organizations domestically and internationally, 2) People should be free to put whatever they want in their own body and earn the consequences, and 3) Prohibition of popular drugs puts otherwise law-abiding people in contact with the criminal underworld. Try this at home. Tell your friends "I think all drugs should be legal". My experience is that you're going to get strong disagreement from the vast majority of people, even the more liberally-minded ones. Decades of propaganda have been effective.
- meric 11y ago
  What are your thoughts on the argument about ice destroying teenager's minds?
  - marcoperaza 11y ago
    Those drugs aren't exactly hard to find today either.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

For the longest time, voters were the ones supporting the war on drugs. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/14/6-facts-about-marijuana/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/14/6-facts-abou... "A slim majority (53%) of Americans say the drug should be made legal, compared with 44% who want it to be illegal. Opinions have changed drastically since 1969, when Gallup first asked the question and found that just 12% favored legalizing marijuana use. Much of the change in opinion has occurred over the past few years — support rose 11 points between 2010 and 2013 (although it has remained relatively unchanged since then)."

Retric 11y ago
That's not support for the war on drugs. I think LSD should be illegal, but be a misdemeanor with a minor fine. Actual support for long prison terms for 'minor' crimes has always been fairly low. But, you can get wide swings based on how you phrase the question. Remember people say tough on crime, not here is what I want to do and this is how much it's going to cost.
- aparent 11y ago
  >I think LSD should be illegal Out of interest, why do you think this?
  - Retric 11y ago
    It might be fine at low usage levels. But, I have known a few heavy users who where harmed by it. I don't expect being a minor fine will have a significant effect, but it is likely to discourage some people which IMO is a good thing.
    - pstuart 11y ago
      My point is that all drugs have risks and harms associated with them. Criminalizing them in anyway is the wrong way to address that (and it's historically never been the real reason for doing so -- it's been about oppression of minorities and dissidents).
- facetube 11y ago
  Why should someone have to pay a fine to control their own cognition in the privacy of their own home at their own expense and risk?
  - Retric 11y ago
    It's not going to prevent prevent people from using in the privacy of there own home. It would discourage people though, and with long term negative effects for many users that's probably a good thing IMO.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- pstuart 11y ago
  Since you are obviously concerned about public safety, I presume you're for making alcohol illegal as well?
  - Retric 11y ago
    Alcohol is way to easy to manufacture on the sly. I would be in favor of limiting how strong you can make alcohol without paying a prohibitive tax. AKA, buying higher proof should not be the cheaper way to drink.
chishaku 11y ago
Most people supported the invasion of Iraq [0] but I wouldn't say it was the voters that led the US to war. [0]: http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans...

marcoperaza 11y ago

I'd venture a guess that many more politicians in Congress and elsewhere are aware of how stupid drug prohibition is than will publicly admit it. Remember, a lot of them are genuine intellectuals, with some of the sharpest young policy experts in the country working for them. Politics is the art of the possible, and ending drug prohibition is a political nonstarter right now. Unfortunately, the weed legalization movement has been succeeding with the "weed isn't that bad for you" message, which is a half-truth that will undermine further liberalization, and has failed to shift the debate regarding the War on Drugs overall. The good arguments for ending the drug war, which the general public is not aware of, are: 1) Prohibition empowers violent criminal organizations domestically and internationally, 2) People should be free to put whatever they want in their own body and earn the consequences, and 3) Prohibition of popular drugs puts otherwise law-abiding people in contact with the criminal underworld. Try this at home. Tell your friends "I think all drugs should be legal". My experience is that you're going to get strong disagreement from the vast majority of people, even the more liberally-minded ones. Decades of propaganda have been effective.

meric 11y ago
What are your thoughts on the argument about ice destroying teenager's minds?
- marcoperaza 11y ago
  Those drugs aren't exactly hard to find today either.