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That's not right, I host some email servers for small companies and private people who all have problems with Google accounts although supporting DKIM, SPF and

That's not right, I host some email servers for small companies and private people who all have problems with Google accounts although supporting DKIM, SPF and a TLS connection. They block them as bulk mail and in their FAQ the option hosting your own server isn't even listed. Of course contacting them is impossible, so the only way left is creating a ton of fake accounts on gmail and add the addresses to their contacts or ask friends with gmail accounts to add them and mark them as no spam. Google definitely IS the email bully and there's not much you can do about it.

inopinatus 11y ago
Maybe they have a reputation system in which I've gained a good standing and you haven't. Have you considered that your attempts to game their system have actually been regarded as abuse?
- jonknee 11y ago
  All major email providers do similar things because this is exactly the setup you'd have if you were a spam operation. Email is just something that you shouldn't try and do yourself on a small scale.
  - Tepix 11y ago
    It very much is something that should stay decentralized. I'm was shocked when I learned that google mail has 1 billion accounts. It's starting to break email as a non-proprietary service.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    How long before 'The world wide web is just something that you shouldn't try and do yourself on a small scale.'. Really that's bothers me greatly. Email is the example of a successful open protocol and by all means you should try and do it yourself. The less we are reliant on these giant companies the better and to abdicate email to google just because they've achieved critical mass is to wipe 25 years of internet history under the carpet. Decentralization is good, not bad. If installing and operating a compliant email server is too hard then we should make that easier, not push to get everybody to switch over to some corporation.
    - jonknee 11y ago
      There's not a good way to make running your own email server both easy for you and not easy for spammers. It's a shame, but that's how it is.
  - inopinatus 11y ago
    Email remains the poster child (given its age, perhaps that should be poster grandparent) for how a lightweight federated communications protocol can service needs from micro to mega. For comparison: the sidelining of XMPP by corporate interests was awfully disappointing; the centralisation of social networking feeds is downright heartbreaking. But none of that should put us off trying and trying again. Everyone with an interest in how the Internet protocol stack works in context should try running their own mail service, it's a fantastic and low-cost way to gain insight.
shkkmo 11y ago
Huh, I've had more problems with other blocklists, but never with google. It certainly can be a pain. We need something simple, maybe sort of like EV SSL certs, to allow more painless establishment of email sending reputation on new IPs and domains.

inopinatus 11y ago

Maybe they have a reputation system in which I've gained a good standing and you haven't. Have you considered that your attempts to game their system have actually been regarded as abuse?

jonknee 11y ago
All major email providers do similar things because this is exactly the setup you'd have if you were a spam operation. Email is just something that you shouldn't try and do yourself on a small scale.
- Tepix 11y ago
  It very much is something that should stay decentralized. I'm was shocked when I learned that google mail has 1 billion accounts. It's starting to break email as a non-proprietary service.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  How long before 'The world wide web is just something that you shouldn't try and do yourself on a small scale.'. Really that's bothers me greatly. Email is the example of a successful open protocol and by all means you should try and do it yourself. The less we are reliant on these giant companies the better and to abdicate email to google just because they've achieved critical mass is to wipe 25 years of internet history under the carpet. Decentralization is good, not bad. If installing and operating a compliant email server is too hard then we should make that easier, not push to get everybody to switch over to some corporation.
  - jonknee 11y ago
    There's not a good way to make running your own email server both easy for you and not easy for spammers. It's a shame, but that's how it is.
- inopinatus 11y ago
  Email remains the poster child (given its age, perhaps that should be poster grandparent) for how a lightweight federated communications protocol can service needs from micro to mega. For comparison: the sidelining of XMPP by corporate interests was awfully disappointing; the centralisation of social networking feeds is downright heartbreaking. But none of that should put us off trying and trying again. Everyone with an interest in how the Internet protocol stack works in context should try running their own mail service, it's a fantastic and low-cost way to gain insight.

shkkmo 11y ago

Huh, I've had more problems with other blocklists, but never with google. It certainly can be a pain. We need something simple, maybe sort of like EV SSL certs, to allow more painless establishment of email sending reputation on new IPs and domains.