5 ms·

> What's the problem, exactly? > Most people are not capable of running their own mail server. I think that is a big part of the problem. It should be relati

by elihu 11y ago

> What's the problem, exactly? > Most people are not capable of running their own mail server. I think that is a big part of the problem. It should be relatively straightforward for someone who isn't a full-time email server administrator to setup a mail server correctly, but it's not. At least, it wasn't easy last time I tried it with Postfix and (iirc) Courier on Ubuntu. All the cryptography options are disabled by default and you have to spend a lot of time figuring out which ones should be turned on, where to stick the certificate files and how they should be formatted, how to get Courier and Postfix to talk to each other, etc... Maybe there's an easy solution (besides "pay someone a monthly fee to manage this all for me") that I'm oblivious to, but it seemed like I was on a well-travelled path and it was a lot harder than it should have been.

techsupporter 11y ago
If it helps, I recently rebuilt my mail server and changed from FreeBSD+qmail+Courier to Ubuntu+Postfix+Dovecot. In doing so, I used this series from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to-run-your-own-e-mail-server-with-your-own-domain-part-1/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to... It shows how to set up SPF, DKIM, TLS, anti-spam filtering, Sieve, certificate-based authentication (I still haven't figured out how to do this with an iPhone), and so on. The only bolt-on it references but doesn't explore and I actually used is the Z-Push package to implement ActiveSync.
- qewrffewqwfqew 11y ago
  are you able to mail folks at google/live without going to spam? Genuinely curious.
  - techsupporter 11y ago
    Yes. I periodically test with various recipients and mail goes through without a hitch. The only difference I might have versus people starting out fresh is that the domains I host are relatively aged. The newest is two years old and the oldest is nineteen. I also made sure that DNS is set up properly, both forward and reverse, and especially for IPv6.
    - qewrffewqwfqew 11y ago
      maybe my sin is hosting at linode - for a new recipient at either of the behemoths, I seem to have 50% chance of going to spam. Thanks for your comment.
      - jbclements 11y ago
        I host with linode, and have had generally good results sending mail to gmail. They're definitely not the worst. Granted, I have had SPF enabled for about 10 years.
- ejolto 11y ago
  Thanks for the interesting link, I've been curious for a while about running my own email server. Do you encrypt the email on disk, or are they stored in plain text?
ams6110 11y ago
Have a look at opensmtpd. Easiest-to-configure mail server I've ever used. https://www.opensmtpd.org/ https://www.opensmtpd.org/
- xrstf 11y ago
  I tried it on Ubuntu 14.04, but unfortunately you get only pretty old versions, even via PPA. And no matter what I did, opensmtpd crashed each time it received a mail from localhost to a local receiver. I'm having high hopes for Ubuntu 16.04 having a more recent version on board. Then I will try to switch from postfix again. Because as you've said, it's really straightforward to set up :)
Kadin 11y ago
Most ISPs don't allow inbound (or, often, outbound) connections on port 25, so the number of people who can run mail servers at home is pretty limited. I think even Cox stopped allowing it a while ago, and they were among the most lenient of the big ISPs. (Comcast hasn't allowed it for a while.) That, I think, is why the distribution managers don't make the default configurations a little more friendly/sane; most users aren't interested in installing a MTA to do anything but local delivery or smarthosting, and the people who are, are probably going to tweak the configs to death anyway, so it's not worth spending the time making it run well and securely straight out of the box. It wouldn't be too hard to build a "mailserver in a box" with (say) Debian + Postfix + LetsEncrypt + BIND that you could stand up in an hour and be reasonably secure (and I'd be kinda surprised if that doesn't exist in some form already), but I don't know how many people would want it who aren't running mailservers already, and have the capability of doing so.
- dheera 11y ago
  So run it on AWS. In general, I think running mail servers off a residential, or even business ISP is very sketchy. E-mail is my primary line of communication for important matters, and I can't afford to have a snowstorm, busted hard drive, orange juice spill, or basement flood take out my mail sever.
  - amichal 11y ago
    Ec2 blocks/throttles outgoing smtp
    - _cudgel 11y ago
      EC2 blocks/throttles outgoing SMTP by default. As with so many things in AWS, it's left up to the customer to inform AWS that a) you're running a mail server, b) what the purpose/use case is and c) request they configure the reverse lookup associated with the elastic IP you've allocated. Source: I've been running public facing SMTP servers in EC2 for years with no issues.
      - 11y ago
Johnny555 11y ago
If you make hard things easy to do, then people that don't know what they are doing will do it (poorly). They'll set up a server once, and never maintain or update it and it'll eventually be hacked and taken over by spammers. I set up and maintain our mail servers and work, and for my personal email, I chose to point my domain to Gmail to let Google take care of it, I don't want to expend the effort it takes to run my own mail server.

by elihu 11y ago

techsupporter 11y ago

If it helps, I recently rebuilt my mail server and changed from FreeBSD+qmail+Courier to Ubuntu+Postfix+Dovecot. In doing so, I used this series from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to-run-your-own-e-mail-server-with-your-own-domain-part-1/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to... It shows how to set up SPF, DKIM, TLS, anti-spam filtering, Sieve, certificate-based authentication (I still haven't figured out how to do this with an iPhone), and so on. The only bolt-on it references but doesn't explore and I actually used is the Z-Push package to implement ActiveSync.

qewrffewqwfqew 11y ago
are you able to mail folks at google/live without going to spam? Genuinely curious.
- techsupporter 11y ago
  Yes. I periodically test with various recipients and mail goes through without a hitch. The only difference I might have versus people starting out fresh is that the domains I host are relatively aged. The newest is two years old and the oldest is nineteen. I also made sure that DNS is set up properly, both forward and reverse, and especially for IPv6.
  - qewrffewqwfqew 11y ago
    maybe my sin is hosting at linode - for a new recipient at either of the behemoths, I seem to have 50% chance of going to spam. Thanks for your comment.
    - jbclements 11y ago
      I host with linode, and have had generally good results sending mail to gmail. They're definitely not the worst. Granted, I have had SPF enabled for about 10 years.
ejolto 11y ago
Thanks for the interesting link, I've been curious for a while about running my own email server. Do you encrypt the email on disk, or are they stored in plain text?

ams6110 11y ago

Have a look at opensmtpd. Easiest-to-configure mail server I've ever used. https://www.opensmtpd.org/ https://www.opensmtpd.org/

xrstf 11y ago
I tried it on Ubuntu 14.04, but unfortunately you get only pretty old versions, even via PPA. And no matter what I did, opensmtpd crashed each time it received a mail from localhost to a local receiver. I'm having high hopes for Ubuntu 16.04 having a more recent version on board. Then I will try to switch from postfix again. Because as you've said, it's really straightforward to set up :)

Kadin 11y ago

Most ISPs don't allow inbound (or, often, outbound) connections on port 25, so the number of people who can run mail servers at home is pretty limited. I think even Cox stopped allowing it a while ago, and they were among the most lenient of the big ISPs. (Comcast hasn't allowed it for a while.) That, I think, is why the distribution managers don't make the default configurations a little more friendly/sane; most users aren't interested in installing a MTA to do anything but local delivery or smarthosting, and the people who are, are probably going to tweak the configs to death anyway, so it's not worth spending the time making it run well and securely straight out of the box. It wouldn't be too hard to build a "mailserver in a box" with (say) Debian + Postfix + LetsEncrypt + BIND that you could stand up in an hour and be reasonably secure (and I'd be kinda surprised if that doesn't exist in some form already), but I don't know how many people would want it who aren't running mailservers already, and have the capability of doing so.

dheera 11y ago
So run it on AWS. In general, I think running mail servers off a residential, or even business ISP is very sketchy. E-mail is my primary line of communication for important matters, and I can't afford to have a snowstorm, busted hard drive, orange juice spill, or basement flood take out my mail sever.
- amichal 11y ago
  Ec2 blocks/throttles outgoing smtp
  - _cudgel 11y ago
    EC2 blocks/throttles outgoing SMTP by default. As with so many things in AWS, it's left up to the customer to inform AWS that a) you're running a mail server, b) what the purpose/use case is and c) request they configure the reverse lookup associated with the elastic IP you've allocated. Source: I've been running public facing SMTP servers in EC2 for years with no issues.
    - 11y ago

Johnny555 11y ago

If you make hard things easy to do, then people that don't know what they are doing will do it (poorly). They'll set up a server once, and never maintain or update it and it'll eventually be hacked and taken over by spammers. I set up and maintain our mail servers and work, and for my personal email, I chose to point my domain to Gmail to let Google take care of it, I don't want to expend the effort it takes to run my own mail server.