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Do people who work in software startups generally take Physics, Chemistry, Calc 1-4, Diff Eq, Statics, Dynamics and so on while at University? As a Ph.D. in EE

Do people who work in software startups generally take Physics, Chemistry, Calc 1-4, Diff Eq, Statics, Dynamics and so on while at University? As a Ph.D. in EE, who did indeed take all of these things before becoming a software engineer [1], I feel eminently qualified to say: Engineering is a thing you do. It is not the name of a course, a piece of paper, or a certification exam. Don't let the maturity and professionalization of other forms of engineering blind you to the real meaning of the word. I believe there was a time, in the 18th and 19th centuries, when there were significant numbers of engineers who were "practical men" and didn't go to college. They were engineers, and so are we. An engineer is someone who designs and builds machines that do work. [2] And software engineers design and build machines -- some of the most complex machines ever built by conscious mind. We count. --- [1] I highly recommend studying all of these things, by the way. They are not just useful subjects, but very beautiful ones. Don't neglect biology, either. [2] People who build machines that look pretty are artists. People who understand why the computing machines work are computer scientists. Nothing stops one from being all of these things at the same time -- indeed, many people, including myself, think that it helps a lot -- but neither art nor science are synonymous with engineering.

Gunnar 17y ago
I like your second point. One of my older engineering professors (PhD in '64) made an observation that I found particularly astute: "Scientists discover what is, engineers create what never was. Think always about how things can be improved, or how new things can be created."
asmithmd1 17y ago
"Engineering is a thing you do. It is not the name of a course, a piece of paper, or a certification exam." Actually it is a piece of paper. In every state in the United States you have licensed by the state to call yourself and engineer and sell engineering services. The same as doctors, nurses, lawyers, barbers, and whatever other professions states deem required to have licenses.
- Daniel_Newby 17y ago
  "In every state in the United States you have licensed by the state to call yourself and engineer and sell engineering services." And those laws almost universally ignored. The trouble is that the laws are so overbearing that they choked off the supply of new licensees. The first people to get licensed, because that was the entire industry at the time, were things like boiler and power engineers. Suppose you were a young engineer and you wanted your PE license to design metal detectors "properly". You'd have had to specialize in something like power systems, sign up with whoever had a PE on staff, spend 6-12 months sizing transformer windings and designing 50 kV relays (because most PEs worked at places like that). Then you have to jump ship to work with a different PE, because you need to accumulate an apprenticeship under four PEs before you can get a license. Only then can you get your license and go back to school to specialize in what you actually want to do. Finally, in your late 20s, with no job longer than a year, and just starting work on your passion, you can try to get a job in metal detection. Most new engineers sensibly decided to just break the law. Even if the engineering board were certain to catch up with you, it would be easier to quietly move to another state in the middle of the night and start over. And the actual odds are more like one in 10,000. P.S. IIRC Texas scrapped a lot of their silly PE laws.
  - assemble 17y ago
    For a PE in KS, you complete an engineering curriculum. Take the FE test. Then you study under any PE for four years. (Not four different ones for one year, but I suppose that would work.) Finally, you have to pass another test. It's not really too much to ask for the guy signing the blueprint that says the power lines or building being put up won't kill anybody.
    - Daniel_Newby 17y ago
      That's a step in the right direction, and many jurisdictions seem to be doing it lately. However it is still too much. They need more gradations, like how medicine has a spectrum from phlebotomists (people who draw blood) to board certified neurosurgeons. As it is, a handyman who uses Ohm's law to choose the size of a wire has committed illegal engineering.

Gunnar 17y ago

I like your second point. One of my older engineering professors (PhD in '64) made an observation that I found particularly astute: "Scientists discover what is, engineers create what never was. Think always about how things can be improved, or how new things can be created."

asmithmd1 17y ago

"Engineering is a thing you do. It is not the name of a course, a piece of paper, or a certification exam." Actually it is a piece of paper. In every state in the United States you have licensed by the state to call yourself and engineer and sell engineering services. The same as doctors, nurses, lawyers, barbers, and whatever other professions states deem required to have licenses.

Daniel_Newby 17y ago
"In every state in the United States you have licensed by the state to call yourself and engineer and sell engineering services." And those laws almost universally ignored. The trouble is that the laws are so overbearing that they choked off the supply of new licensees. The first people to get licensed, because that was the entire industry at the time, were things like boiler and power engineers. Suppose you were a young engineer and you wanted your PE license to design metal detectors "properly". You'd have had to specialize in something like power systems, sign up with whoever had a PE on staff, spend 6-12 months sizing transformer windings and designing 50 kV relays (because most PEs worked at places like that). Then you have to jump ship to work with a different PE, because you need to accumulate an apprenticeship under four PEs before you can get a license. Only then can you get your license and go back to school to specialize in what you actually want to do. Finally, in your late 20s, with no job longer than a year, and just starting work on your passion, you can try to get a job in metal detection. Most new engineers sensibly decided to just break the law. Even if the engineering board were certain to catch up with you, it would be easier to quietly move to another state in the middle of the night and start over. And the actual odds are more like one in 10,000. P.S. IIRC Texas scrapped a lot of their silly PE laws.
- assemble 17y ago
  For a PE in KS, you complete an engineering curriculum. Take the FE test. Then you study under any PE for four years. (Not four different ones for one year, but I suppose that would work.) Finally, you have to pass another test. It's not really too much to ask for the guy signing the blueprint that says the power lines or building being put up won't kill anybody.
  - Daniel_Newby 17y ago
    That's a step in the right direction, and many jurisdictions seem to be doing it lately. However it is still too much. They need more gradations, like how medicine has a spectrum from phlebotomists (people who draw blood) to board certified neurosurgeons. As it is, a handyman who uses Ohm's law to choose the size of a wire has committed illegal engineering.