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Fair enough but do you think a 1-2 man shop can get better reliability than a product like Parse if they are average app developers that don't have Ops experien

Fair enough but do you think a 1-2 man shop can get better reliability than a product like Parse if they are average app developers that don't have Ops experience? EDIT Since I'm rate limited: > I don't think any product exists that's going to remove the need for ops experience. I haven't used Parse, so I can't comment on its reliability. If you are an app developer whose backend consists entirely of talking to an API, I'm uncertain exactly what "ops experience" on the server side you believe is needed?

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I don't think any product exists that's going to remove the need for ops experience. I haven't used Parse, so I can't comment on its reliability.
seanwilson 11y ago
> Fair enough but do you think a 1-2 man shop can get better reliability than a product like Parse if they are average app developers that don't have Ops experience? I don't think that's ever going to be possible unless both people forgo sleep and are willing to drop whatever it is they're doing to attend incidents. I'm really surprised by the number of responses of the form "but I could run that cheaply myself on my own server!" I see to online services.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > I'm really surprised by the number of responses of the form "but I could run that cheaply myself on my own server!" I see to online services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconfidence_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconfidence_effect
- fweespeech 11y ago
  Yeah. That was really where the host service has value. Admittedly, if you know what you are doing, you can build a reliable, distributed backend but that isn't a skillset most App developers have.
  - seanwilson 11y ago
    It's not just about knowing what you're doing though, it's about having a team that can support the service 24/7.
    - fweespeech 11y ago
      Fwiw, I have a distributed service that runs 24/7/365 for years without downtime. I've had ~4 on call events in 5 years and all of those I could wait at least 9 hours to resolve. Certain situations allow you to do that sort of thing.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

I don't think any product exists that's going to remove the need for ops experience. I haven't used Parse, so I can't comment on its reliability.

seanwilson 11y ago

> Fair enough but do you think a 1-2 man shop can get better reliability than a product like Parse if they are average app developers that don't have Ops experience? I don't think that's ever going to be possible unless both people forgo sleep and are willing to drop whatever it is they're doing to attend incidents. I'm really surprised by the number of responses of the form "but I could run that cheaply myself on my own server!" I see to online services.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
> I'm really surprised by the number of responses of the form "but I could run that cheaply myself on my own server!" I see to online services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconfidence_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconfidence_effect
fweespeech 11y ago
Yeah. That was really where the host service has value. Admittedly, if you know what you are doing, you can build a reliable, distributed backend but that isn't a skillset most App developers have.
- seanwilson 11y ago
  It's not just about knowing what you're doing though, it's about having a team that can support the service 24/7.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    Fwiw, I have a distributed service that runs 24/7/365 for years without downtime. I've had ~4 on call events in 5 years and all of those I could wait at least 9 hours to resolve. Certain situations allow you to do that sort of thing.