4 ms·

Underemployment is arguably worse than unemployment for a given person. It ends up moving the equilibrium S/D price to a drastically lower position in the short

Underemployment is arguably worse than unemployment for a given person. It ends up moving the equilibrium S/D price to a drastically lower position in the short run, and ultimately somewhat a lower position than where it should be. Taking gigs like this is foolish for anyone in software who cares about a stable salary any time in the future.

dangrossman 17y ago
What do you suggest, then? If you can't find a job that pays your normal salary, don't work at all? So, homelessness? Or a career change? Take up a job as a janitor for a few years until the job market recovers, then look for programming work again? It doesn't sound like you are grasping the situation millions of people are in right now. They've been without jobs for months if not over a year, the local labor market in much of the country has more available workers than jobs (hence the 16%+ unemployment and underemployment), they've long since run out of credit and savings to tide them over... and you're suggesting they pass up income opportunities because it might hurt their future salary.
- barrkel 17y ago
  With respect, you're making huge assumptions. What proportion of the increase[1] in unemployment is composed of competent software engineers? How difficult do you think it would be for a decent software engineer to change jobs tomorrow? If I had to bet, I'd say a fair chunk of those people were involved in construction, one way or another, since the boom was largely in housing and construction is very labour intensive.
  - techiferous 17y ago
    Here's a datapoint for you: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer,+developer&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer,+developer&...
    - barrkel 17y ago
      I'm not sure that adds much. How do you normalize for growth (or not) in the market, population, etc.? Here's the corresponding relative chart: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer%2C+developer&l=&relative=1 http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer%2C+developer&#3... So demand for programmers is down 25%, but developers are up 25%?
      - ahlatimer 17y ago
        My guess is the trend has been to call programmers developers and the relative number of jobs available is roughly the same. Unless there's some sort of real difference that I haven't found, I don't care if someone calls me a programmer or a developer. I really don't see any difference beside word choice.
        neenack 17y ago
        http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer+OR+%22software+developer%22&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer+OR+%22software+...
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  If you can't find a job that pays your normal salary, don't work at all? So, homelessness? Come on, this a total false dichotomy. There is a range between an $80k / yr salary and $200 for a 2-week development project. I wouldn't blink if this story said that junior developers were taking gigs for $10 - 30 / hr. But $2 / hr? You either are a really poor developer or you have no idea how to find work. In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If anyone out there who can code well wants to make $5 / hr, email me and I'll give you all the work you can handle. ryan at mightybrand dot com
  - nileshtrivedi 17y ago
    Have to agree with you. I am based in India and yet, I myself wouldn't settle for anything less than $15 / hr. $2/hr in US is just crazy.
  - KirinDave 17y ago
    Hah. Evil man. But you have a point, and one I had to realize when I graduate from college right as the bubble burst and there was 0 work in the industry: If you can type >85wpm, you can easily make $12-14/hr starting out in an office temp position. It's not great money and the work is no fun, but it leaves you with open lunch breaks to read a book on programming and nights uncomplicated by deadlines. If software engineering doesn't pay for you, do something that does until you can land the job you want.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  "Or a career change? Take up a job as a janitor for a few years until the job market recovers, then look for programming work again?" Yes. Or as a waiter, or in retail, or anywhere that will pay you. Coding for half of minimum wage is about the last thing you should do.

dangrossman 17y ago

What do you suggest, then? If you can't find a job that pays your normal salary, don't work at all? So, homelessness? Or a career change? Take up a job as a janitor for a few years until the job market recovers, then look for programming work again? It doesn't sound like you are grasping the situation millions of people are in right now. They've been without jobs for months if not over a year, the local labor market in much of the country has more available workers than jobs (hence the 16%+ unemployment and underemployment), they've long since run out of credit and savings to tide them over... and you're suggesting they pass up income opportunities because it might hurt their future salary.

barrkel 17y ago
With respect, you're making huge assumptions. What proportion of the increase[1] in unemployment is composed of competent software engineers? How difficult do you think it would be for a decent software engineer to change jobs tomorrow? If I had to bet, I'd say a fair chunk of those people were involved in construction, one way or another, since the boom was largely in housing and construction is very labour intensive.
- techiferous 17y ago
  Here's a datapoint for you: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer,+developer&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer,+developer&...
  - barrkel 17y ago
    I'm not sure that adds much. How do you normalize for growth (or not) in the market, population, etc.? Here's the corresponding relative chart: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer%2C+developer&l=&relative=1 http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer%2C+developer&#3... So demand for programmers is down 25%, but developers are up 25%?
    - ahlatimer 17y ago
      My guess is the trend has been to call programmers developers and the relative number of jobs available is roughly the same. Unless there's some sort of real difference that I haven't found, I don't care if someone calls me a programmer or a developer. I really don't see any difference beside word choice.
      - neenack 17y ago
        http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer+OR+%22software+developer%22&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer+OR+%22software+...
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
If you can't find a job that pays your normal salary, don't work at all? So, homelessness? Come on, this a total false dichotomy. There is a range between an $80k / yr salary and $200 for a 2-week development project. I wouldn't blink if this story said that junior developers were taking gigs for $10 - 30 / hr. But $2 / hr? You either are a really poor developer or you have no idea how to find work. In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If anyone out there who can code well wants to make $5 / hr, email me and I'll give you all the work you can handle. ryan at mightybrand dot com
- nileshtrivedi 17y ago
  Have to agree with you. I am based in India and yet, I myself wouldn't settle for anything less than $15 / hr. $2/hr in US is just crazy.
- KirinDave 17y ago
  Hah. Evil man. But you have a point, and one I had to realize when I graduate from college right as the bubble burst and there was 0 work in the industry: If you can type >85wpm, you can easily make $12-14/hr starting out in an office temp position. It's not great money and the work is no fun, but it leaves you with open lunch breaks to read a book on programming and nights uncomplicated by deadlines. If software engineering doesn't pay for you, do something that does until you can land the job you want.
Semiapies 17y ago
"Or a career change? Take up a job as a janitor for a few years until the job market recovers, then look for programming work again?" Yes. Or as a waiter, or in retail, or anywhere that will pay you. Coding for half of minimum wage is about the last thing you should do.