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I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree. What most startups need is not another engineer. What most startups need is a business person who understands

I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree. What most startups need is not another engineer. What most startups need is a business person who understands engineering. We can quantify value. After attending the Hacker Fair 0 (Mtn View) . . . flying out there especially for it, having my demos ready and talking to way too many "recruiter" types who understand nothing about code, this really rang true. Technically-oriented business people are not recruiters any more than engineers are recruiters. Recruiters are people who read articles like this (parent) and manipulate people to work, solving a company's problems for free. They're usually the last ones a company must resort to to find talent. I've yet to find a company intelligent enough to hire me.

j_baker 17y ago
"I've yet to find a company intelligent enough to hire me." Not to be rude, but do you think this attitude might have something to do with it? I'm asking this because sometimes us geeks really don't know when we come off as condescending. Bear in mind that I say this as someone who has put my foot in my mouth and said more stupid things than I would admit to publicly.
- krakensden 17y ago
  I don't think he's being particularly condescending. I know I'm not very bright, but I've walked away from recruiters simply because they were clueless and condescending. You can pitch me to work for peanuts, but if you're a slimeball, it's probably not going to work.
  - j_baker 17y ago
    He could be absolutely right, but whether or not he's right, statements like that are likely to be interpreted as being about attitude than circumstance.
- indiejade 17y ago
  do you think this attitude might have something to do with it? No. I say this as a person who has been homeless because nobody would hire her. I'm not the most genius on the planet, but I'm also not an idiot. I've dealt with far too many people who, when bragging about being an "engineer", fail to understand the value of having somebody on the team who knows and talks business.
dannyr 17y ago
"What most startups need is not another engineer. What most startups need is a business person who understands engineering. We can quantify value." Can a business person who understands engineering build the site? Nope. You're basically hiring a business person who would hire engineers. I believe the engineers in a company are good enough to hire engineers.
- indiejade 17y ago
  This line of thinking is failure waiting to happen. Sooner or later, a team of engineers needs to have the value of its time-consuming product quantified. If you hire somebody who is on your side, then the variable is certain to go up, and a business person will end up making everybody on the engineering team more money by adding a quantifiable value to the efforts of the collective. Business people are engineers' advocates. Failing to hire a business person means product will almost certainly get "ripped off" or valued less than its market value, at the detriment of every body on the team.
  - dannyr 17y ago
    indiejade, Do you really think startups should make it a priority to hire a business person over engineers in the early stages? The article is about hiring the first 5 engineers but do not take is as do not hire a business person. Eventually, a startup would definitely need one but in the early stages, a startup can survive without a business person. Can you name a startup that was founded without an engineer? I can name you numerous startups that were founded without a business person easily though.
anamax 17y ago
> We can quantify value. That's not enough - you have to be able to produce value.

j_baker 17y ago

"I've yet to find a company intelligent enough to hire me." Not to be rude, but do you think this attitude might have something to do with it? I'm asking this because sometimes us geeks really don't know when we come off as condescending. Bear in mind that I say this as someone who has put my foot in my mouth and said more stupid things than I would admit to publicly.

krakensden 17y ago
I don't think he's being particularly condescending. I know I'm not very bright, but I've walked away from recruiters simply because they were clueless and condescending. You can pitch me to work for peanuts, but if you're a slimeball, it's probably not going to work.
- j_baker 17y ago
  He could be absolutely right, but whether or not he's right, statements like that are likely to be interpreted as being about attitude than circumstance.
indiejade 17y ago
do you think this attitude might have something to do with it? No. I say this as a person who has been homeless because nobody would hire her. I'm not the most genius on the planet, but I'm also not an idiot. I've dealt with far too many people who, when bragging about being an "engineer", fail to understand the value of having somebody on the team who knows and talks business.

dannyr 17y ago

"What most startups need is not another engineer. What most startups need is a business person who understands engineering. We can quantify value." Can a business person who understands engineering build the site? Nope. You're basically hiring a business person who would hire engineers. I believe the engineers in a company are good enough to hire engineers.

indiejade 17y ago
This line of thinking is failure waiting to happen. Sooner or later, a team of engineers needs to have the value of its time-consuming product quantified. If you hire somebody who is on your side, then the variable is certain to go up, and a business person will end up making everybody on the engineering team more money by adding a quantifiable value to the efforts of the collective. Business people are engineers' advocates. Failing to hire a business person means product will almost certainly get "ripped off" or valued less than its market value, at the detriment of every body on the team.
- dannyr 17y ago
  indiejade, Do you really think startups should make it a priority to hire a business person over engineers in the early stages? The article is about hiring the first 5 engineers but do not take is as do not hire a business person. Eventually, a startup would definitely need one but in the early stages, a startup can survive without a business person. Can you name a startup that was founded without an engineer? I can name you numerous startups that were founded without a business person easily though.

anamax 17y ago

> We can quantify value. That's not enough - you have to be able to produce value.