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oh wow. Hopefully zenefits stands behind their employees, because this looks scary: In Washington state [...] 83% of the insurance policies sold or service

by x0x0 11y ago

oh wow. Hopefully zenefits stands behind their employees, because this looks scary: In Washington state [...] 83% of the insurance policies sold or serviced by the company through August 2015 were peddled by employees without necessary state licenses [...] [...] Washington law is particularly severe when it comes to the unlicensed sale of insurance. Under the law, anyone who knowingly sells, solicits, or negotiates insurance without the proper state license can be punished with a prison sentence of up to 10 years, as well as a civil penalty of up to $25,000 for each violation. http://www.buzzfeed.com/williamalden/80-of-zenefits-deals-in-washington-state-done-by-unlicensed http://www.buzzfeed.com/williamalden/80-of-zenefits-deals-in...

mikemac 11y ago
A large part of the insurance industry does not like the Zenefits business model (free software to be your broker), so I'd bet regulators are presumably getting a lot of pressure from the insurance lobby to do something quick.
- phonon 11y ago
  Except when "being your broker" means "some random sales dude with no training nor experience is handling your company's health insurance." It's not particularly hard to get licensed (usually around $100, a training course of 40-100 hours (which they are large enough, they could set up inhouse), and possibly fingerprinting). Is it a hassle to get licenses in multiple states? Yeah--though most states honor other state's licenses, and just require the fee then. In any case, this is table stakes--and if they can't get this basic aspect right (after being warned for years!) how well do you think they manage the tricky stuff? And why aren't they hiring experienced health brokers in the first place? (The stuff about illegal rebates because they give away their software is garbage though. I'm 100% on their side for that.)
  - debaserab2 11y ago
    I don't disagree that it's super easy to get a license and should be done regardless – but, geez, why is that a requirement? What's so special about selling health insurance that you should go to jail for up to 10 years if you're not licensed in it? I'm curious because there must be something obvious I'm missing.
    - joahua 11y ago
      Sell inappropriate product, customer isn't covered, death due to lack of (covered) treatment ensues?
    - jeffwass 11y ago
      Because this is people's health you're talking about. Do you feel drivers should have to get a drivers licenses? I hope you don't think Uber should just hire people off the street and put them in cars without proper licenses. A simple health example off the top of my head - you sell health insurance to someone without understanding the product because you're so keen to 'make the sale'. Meanwhile you promised the buyer it would cover that heart condition he has when in fact you have no idea that it doesn't. A couple years later he needs heart surgery and finds out the plan he's been paying into doesn't cover his condition and now he cannot work to provide for his family, nor can he get treatment to get better.
      - morgante 11y ago
        > Because this is people's health you're talking about. That argument is about as valuable as "think of the children." > Do you feel drivers should have to get a drivers licenses? That's not the right analogy. The equivalent would be requiring special licenses for all car dealership employees, which is not required. Salespeople aren't themselves doing anything medical and there's no reason they should have additional requirements beyond normal salespeople. We already have laws covering both (a) fraud, (b) minimum requirements of healthcare plans. > A simple health example off the top of my head Existing consumer protection laws would cover this. You can't sell a product and claim it has a feature which it doesn't — that's fraud. Nothing about health insurance should mean that salespeople should require licensing. It's pure rent-seeking. There are plenty of other dangerous things which are sold by salespeople without licenses.

by x0x0 11y ago

mikemac 11y ago

A large part of the insurance industry does not like the Zenefits business model (free software to be your broker), so I'd bet regulators are presumably getting a lot of pressure from the insurance lobby to do something quick.

phonon 11y ago
Except when "being your broker" means "some random sales dude with no training nor experience is handling your company's health insurance." It's not particularly hard to get licensed (usually around $100, a training course of 40-100 hours (which they are large enough, they could set up inhouse), and possibly fingerprinting). Is it a hassle to get licenses in multiple states? Yeah--though most states honor other state's licenses, and just require the fee then. In any case, this is table stakes--and if they can't get this basic aspect right (after being warned for years!) how well do you think they manage the tricky stuff? And why aren't they hiring experienced health brokers in the first place? (The stuff about illegal rebates because they give away their software is garbage though. I'm 100% on their side for that.)
- debaserab2 11y ago
  I don't disagree that it's super easy to get a license and should be done regardless – but, geez, why is that a requirement? What's so special about selling health insurance that you should go to jail for up to 10 years if you're not licensed in it? I'm curious because there must be something obvious I'm missing.
  - joahua 11y ago
    Sell inappropriate product, customer isn't covered, death due to lack of (covered) treatment ensues?
  - jeffwass 11y ago
    Because this is people's health you're talking about. Do you feel drivers should have to get a drivers licenses? I hope you don't think Uber should just hire people off the street and put them in cars without proper licenses. A simple health example off the top of my head - you sell health insurance to someone without understanding the product because you're so keen to 'make the sale'. Meanwhile you promised the buyer it would cover that heart condition he has when in fact you have no idea that it doesn't. A couple years later he needs heart surgery and finds out the plan he's been paying into doesn't cover his condition and now he cannot work to provide for his family, nor can he get treatment to get better.
    - morgante 11y ago
      > Because this is people's health you're talking about. That argument is about as valuable as "think of the children." > Do you feel drivers should have to get a drivers licenses? That's not the right analogy. The equivalent would be requiring special licenses for all car dealership employees, which is not required. Salespeople aren't themselves doing anything medical and there's no reason they should have additional requirements beyond normal salespeople. We already have laws covering both (a) fraud, (b) minimum requirements of healthcare plans. > A simple health example off the top of my head Existing consumer protection laws would cover this. You can't sell a product and claim it has a feature which it doesn't — that's fraud. Nothing about health insurance should mean that salespeople should require licensing. It's pure rent-seeking. There are plenty of other dangerous things which are sold by salespeople without licenses.