9 ms·

You really think there's less weed smoking where it's illegal? How does that work? Drug laws work so it's next to impossible to obtain them? Fear of getting cau

by dave2000 11y ago

You really think there's less weed smoking where it's illegal? How does that work? Drug laws work so it's next to impossible to obtain them? Fear of getting caught?

DrScump 11y ago
<You really think there's less weed smoking where it's illegal?> On this same thread, you wrote: "restrict gun sales and you reduce gun crime." So, why are the economics of banning guns vs. banning weed such opposites in your view?
- DCPOS_Anthony 11y ago
  So guns are a drug now are they?
- dave2000 11y ago
  I don't see the connection between guns and drugs.
mturmon 11y ago
Sure, there is less weed smoking where it's illegal. Aside from the factors you mention, there is an obvious one: people not doing something simply because it is against the law. People do make decisions on that basis.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > people not doing something simply because it is against the law. People do make decisions on that basis. Conversely, people also make decisions on the opposite basis -- doing things because they are prohibited.
  - wingerlang 11y ago
    Not nearly the same amount do that, I assume.
- dave2000 11y ago
  Really? I can't imagine a single person ever saying "I've heard about people having profound, life altering experiences on drugs, but because they are illegal I won't take them". Such a person must have literally no respect for themselves at all.
  - mturmon 11y ago
    Hi @dave2000, I am that man. Sure, I've done illegal things, and I still do, but generally I avoid breaking the law. I note that my respect for the law has increased with age. Probably due to encountering more accomplished lawbreakers and not wanting to be the guy who says, "Yes, but it's OK if I break that law because it's a stupid law." Also knowing people who, perhaps, had a problem at an airport or with the state police. I find the law to be a useful reality check. I note your argument above has made this into a 0/1 proposition ("because they are illegal I won't take them"). But I believe it is more true to reality to look at it probabilistically, i.e., on a given Friday night, is it more or less likely that I'd be offered MMJ by a friend if it's legal in CA versus not legal in CA. I think this thought experiment clarifies the argument that consumption increases when MJ is legalized. Indeed, for medical MJ specifically, I think that is the point.
wanderfowl 11y ago
It's less public. There's actual fear of smoking in parks, pools, concerts, because it's still nominally illegal. After legalization in CO, public smoking went way up. I suspect it'll drop down again after the novelty wears off and the public tires of it and wants smoking laws enforced. But one nice perk of legalization is that it could be written into leases explicitly that smoking in the apartment is in violation of the lease and is grounds for eviction after repeated complaints. It's not a police matter or a "narcotics" issue, it's just somebody being an inconsiderate neighbor.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  That's not a perk of legalization, since you can do that when the drug is illegal, as well. In fact, many leases do do that for all illegal drugs (which marijuana remains, due to federal prohibition, no matter what happens under state law.)
  - wanderfowl 11y ago
    Yes, but there's a huge subjective difference between saying "You're an asshole, stop smoking up in a shared-wall-dwelling" and "You're a criminal, go to jail". Most managers are happy to address nuisance issues, but would rather reduce the number of police calls to the property. Same thing with public smoking laws. People smoking up in a park upwind of people deserve a small ticket, an age check, and a harshed mellow. They do not deserve arrest and prosecution on drug laws. Enforcement of disproportionate punishment is less attractive to sane humans.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      The fact that something is a criminal offense does not mean that landlords cannot also handle it as a contract issue when it is addressed in a lease. Again, legalization doesn't enable anything here.

You really think there's less weed smoking where it's illegal? How does that work? Drug laws work so it's next to impossible to obtain them? Fear of getting caught?

DrScump 11y ago

<You really think there's less weed smoking where it's illegal?> On this same thread, you wrote: "restrict gun sales and you reduce gun crime." So, why are the economics of banning guns vs. banning weed such opposites in your view?

DCPOS_Anthony 11y ago
So guns are a drug now are they?
dave2000 11y ago
I don't see the connection between guns and drugs.

mturmon 11y ago

Sure, there is less weed smoking where it's illegal. Aside from the factors you mention, there is an obvious one: people not doing something simply because it is against the law. People do make decisions on that basis.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> people not doing something simply because it is against the law. People do make decisions on that basis. Conversely, people also make decisions on the opposite basis -- doing things because they are prohibited.
- wingerlang 11y ago
  Not nearly the same amount do that, I assume.
dave2000 11y ago
Really? I can't imagine a single person ever saying "I've heard about people having profound, life altering experiences on drugs, but because they are illegal I won't take them". Such a person must have literally no respect for themselves at all.
- mturmon 11y ago
  Hi @dave2000, I am that man. Sure, I've done illegal things, and I still do, but generally I avoid breaking the law. I note that my respect for the law has increased with age. Probably due to encountering more accomplished lawbreakers and not wanting to be the guy who says, "Yes, but it's OK if I break that law because it's a stupid law." Also knowing people who, perhaps, had a problem at an airport or with the state police. I find the law to be a useful reality check. I note your argument above has made this into a 0/1 proposition ("because they are illegal I won't take them"). But I believe it is more true to reality to look at it probabilistically, i.e., on a given Friday night, is it more or less likely that I'd be offered MMJ by a friend if it's legal in CA versus not legal in CA. I think this thought experiment clarifies the argument that consumption increases when MJ is legalized. Indeed, for medical MJ specifically, I think that is the point.

wanderfowl 11y ago

It's less public. There's actual fear of smoking in parks, pools, concerts, because it's still nominally illegal. After legalization in CO, public smoking went way up. I suspect it'll drop down again after the novelty wears off and the public tires of it and wants smoking laws enforced. But one nice perk of legalization is that it could be written into leases explicitly that smoking in the apartment is in violation of the lease and is grounds for eviction after repeated complaints. It's not a police matter or a "narcotics" issue, it's just somebody being an inconsiderate neighbor.

dragonwriter 11y ago
That's not a perk of legalization, since you can do that when the drug is illegal, as well. In fact, many leases do do that for all illegal drugs (which marijuana remains, due to federal prohibition, no matter what happens under state law.)
- wanderfowl 11y ago
  Yes, but there's a huge subjective difference between saying "You're an asshole, stop smoking up in a shared-wall-dwelling" and "You're a criminal, go to jail". Most managers are happy to address nuisance issues, but would rather reduce the number of police calls to the property. Same thing with public smoking laws. People smoking up in a park upwind of people deserve a small ticket, an age check, and a harshed mellow. They do not deserve arrest and prosecution on drug laws. Enforcement of disproportionate punishment is less attractive to sane humans.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    The fact that something is a criminal offense does not mean that landlords cannot also handle it as a contract issue when it is addressed in a lease. Again, legalization doesn't enable anything here.