4 ms·

Riddle of cement’s structure is finally solved

123 points by augb 11y ago

devindotcom 11y ago
I love these base-level, practical advances where even a slight improvement in a formula (provided it is not closely guarded) can, say, improve the strength of a material by 5-10%, meaning that much less of it must be used, which at a scale like concrete's can make for huge changes in usage, markets, processes etc.
- samcheng 11y ago
  Concrete is a HUGE greenhouse gas source, so this is also a great boon for the environment. It's estimated that concrete is responsible for 5% of all anthropogenic CO2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concrete#Carbon_dioxide_emissions_and_climate_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concre...
  - justinpombrio 11y ago
    I hate to break it, but it could actually have the opposite effect by disproportionately increasing our consumption of concrete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
    - eru 11y ago
      At least we get more concrete out of it..
    - Chris2048 11y ago
      But that's not concrete.
sharp11 11y ago
This is great! Basically cement is a fractal substance. Are there other known fractal substances?
- dalke 11y ago
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2577851 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2577851 from 1988 starts: > In recent years it has been shown that the structures of a wide variety of colloidal aggregates can be described in terms of the concepts of fractal geometry. The purpose of this review is to discuss some of the evidence for fractal geometry in experimental systems and indicate how fractal geometry can be used to develop a better understanding of their aggregation kinetics and physical properties. so I think the answer is "many". Try https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fractal+material https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fractal+material for some pointers.
  - sharp11 11y ago
    Thank you so much for the pointers. So fascinating!
    - dalke 11y ago
      Google Scholar is a great resource for these sorts of research-oriented questions. I hope you continue to find it useful.
ihartley 11y ago
Here's the PNAS article that they don't link to in the article for some reason: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/02/04/1520487113.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/02/04/1520487113.abst...
- jcr 11y ago
  Thanks for the link, but it is in the article. On news.mit.edu articles, when they do include links to papers, the links are presented in the "RELATED" list on the right side. They don't always remember to give links to papers, but they are better about it than the press/news sites of most universities.
mbroshi 11y ago
In case you are not already excited by discoveries in concrete, this should help: https://gimletmedia.com/episode/3-concrete/ https://gimletmedia.com/episode/3-concrete/
givan 11y ago
There are more riddles to be discovered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques#Limestone_concrete_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_... Utilizing scanning electron microscopy, they discovered mineral compounds and air bubbles in samples of the limestone pyramid blocks that do not occur in natural limestone.
kagamine 11y ago
This may be a stupid question, but given the apparent interest and knowledge of concrete in the comments here, it seems like an appropriate time and place to ask: Why can't they make coloured concrete? Painting it doesn't seem to last/work. It is grey, always grey. Is there no way to apply colour to the mixture and retain its strength?
- onion2k 11y ago
  Seems it's possible - http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete-color/charts.html http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete-color/charts.html - presumably it's either expensive or difficult to work with so it's not used often.
- jonah 11y ago
  It's absolutely done, people just don't think of using concrete as a decorative finish as much. I've seen red and blue and other colors. You can also stain and acid etch concrete for other texture treatments.
- mitchtbaum 11y ago
  > It is grey, always grey. Check out Decorative Concrete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorative_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorative_concrete https://www.pinterest.com/explore/decorative-concrete/ https://www.pinterest.com/explore/decorative-concrete/ Bonus 1) Translucent Concrete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=translucent+concrete http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=translucent+co... Bonus 2) White Concrete, using Titanium Dioxide admixture, also cleans itself and its environment: http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=concrete+tio2 http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=concrete+tio2 Bonus 3) Nanomaterials add a lot of new potential for strength, possibly color, as well as completely new applications. For instance, carbon nanotubes make concrete slightly electrically conductive, which makes it possible to do easy integrity testing, visible from low voltage current fluctuations near stresses, strains, cracks, etc. I wish I had more info on a prospective range of applications here. Aside A) Clays (of possibly many colors) can also provide an even cheaper, more readily available, and similarly strong building material. Sindhi researchers pre-stressed and baked some test beams, and they were just about as strong as comparable concrete. See Emergence of New Era for Reinforced Baked Clay Construction (Memon, Bhatti, & Ansari): http://www.quest.edu.pk/rjournals/julydec2013/julydec2013_1.pdf http://www.quest.edu.pk/rjournals/julydec2013/julydec2013_1.... I sincerely wonder how this ongoing wealth of research on concrete plus many generations old, likely undocumented, skill we have with clay construction could come together.

123 points by augb 11y ago

I love these base-level, practical advances where even a slight improvement in a formula (provided it is not closely guarded) can, say, improve the strength of a material by 5-10%, meaning that much less of it must be used, which at a scale like concrete's can make for huge changes in usage, markets, processes etc.

samcheng 11y ago
Concrete is a HUGE greenhouse gas source, so this is also a great boon for the environment. It's estimated that concrete is responsible for 5% of all anthropogenic CO2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concrete#Carbon_dioxide_emissions_and_climate_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concre...
- justinpombrio 11y ago
  I hate to break it, but it could actually have the opposite effect by disproportionately increasing our consumption of concrete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
  - eru 11y ago
    At least we get more concrete out of it..
  - Chris2048 11y ago
    But that's not concrete.

sharp11 11y ago

This is great! Basically cement is a fractal substance. Are there other known fractal substances?

dalke 11y ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2577851 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2577851 from 1988 starts: > In recent years it has been shown that the structures of a wide variety of colloidal aggregates can be described in terms of the concepts of fractal geometry. The purpose of this review is to discuss some of the evidence for fractal geometry in experimental systems and indicate how fractal geometry can be used to develop a better understanding of their aggregation kinetics and physical properties. so I think the answer is "many". Try https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fractal+material https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fractal+material for some pointers.
- sharp11 11y ago
  Thank you so much for the pointers. So fascinating!
  - dalke 11y ago
    Google Scholar is a great resource for these sorts of research-oriented questions. I hope you continue to find it useful.

ihartley 11y ago

Here's the PNAS article that they don't link to in the article for some reason: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/02/04/1520487113.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/02/04/1520487113.abst...

jcr 11y ago
Thanks for the link, but it is in the article. On news.mit.edu articles, when they do include links to papers, the links are presented in the "RELATED" list on the right side. They don't always remember to give links to papers, but they are better about it than the press/news sites of most universities.

mbroshi 11y ago

In case you are not already excited by discoveries in concrete, this should help: https://gimletmedia.com/episode/3-concrete/ https://gimletmedia.com/episode/3-concrete/

givan 11y ago

There are more riddles to be discovered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques#Limestone_concrete_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_... Utilizing scanning electron microscopy, they discovered mineral compounds and air bubbles in samples of the limestone pyramid blocks that do not occur in natural limestone.

kagamine 11y ago

This may be a stupid question, but given the apparent interest and knowledge of concrete in the comments here, it seems like an appropriate time and place to ask: Why can't they make coloured concrete? Painting it doesn't seem to last/work. It is grey, always grey. Is there no way to apply colour to the mixture and retain its strength?

onion2k 11y ago
Seems it's possible - http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete-color/charts.html http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete-color/charts.html - presumably it's either expensive or difficult to work with so it's not used often.
jonah 11y ago
It's absolutely done, people just don't think of using concrete as a decorative finish as much. I've seen red and blue and other colors. You can also stain and acid etch concrete for other texture treatments.
mitchtbaum 11y ago
> It is grey, always grey. Check out Decorative Concrete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorative_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorative_concrete https://www.pinterest.com/explore/decorative-concrete/ https://www.pinterest.com/explore/decorative-concrete/ Bonus 1) Translucent Concrete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=translucent+concrete http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=translucent+co... Bonus 2) White Concrete, using Titanium Dioxide admixture, also cleans itself and its environment: http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=concrete+tio2 http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&gws_rd=cr&q=concrete+tio2 Bonus 3) Nanomaterials add a lot of new potential for strength, possibly color, as well as completely new applications. For instance, carbon nanotubes make concrete slightly electrically conductive, which makes it possible to do easy integrity testing, visible from low voltage current fluctuations near stresses, strains, cracks, etc. I wish I had more info on a prospective range of applications here. Aside A) Clays (of possibly many colors) can also provide an even cheaper, more readily available, and similarly strong building material. Sindhi researchers pre-stressed and baked some test beams, and they were just about as strong as comparable concrete. See Emergence of New Era for Reinforced Baked Clay Construction (Memon, Bhatti, & Ansari): http://www.quest.edu.pk/rjournals/julydec2013/julydec2013_1.pdf http://www.quest.edu.pk/rjournals/julydec2013/julydec2013_1.... I sincerely wonder how this ongoing wealth of research on concrete plus many generations old, likely undocumented, skill we have with clay construction could come together.