4 ms·

>Once effective technology exists to decentralize key aspects of the platform This has been promised, at least, since the 90s. So far its really not happening.

>Once effective technology exists to decentralize key aspects of the platform This has been promised, at least, since the 90s. So far its really not happening. If anything the exact opposite is. >There needs to be a protocol to decentralize social the way bitcoin decentralized money. In the currency wars, bitcoin isn't even a player. Its quite the niche, like FB alternative diaspora*. Heck, by now we should all have local copies of wikipedia and only do nightly diffs right? Everyone wants their own personal decentralized copy of wikipedia, right? I think centralization is not only going to be popular due to cost savings and ease of management, but the natural way to go for information technology. Complex systems often consolidate balkanized parts into larger wholes. This is also why we have ~200 countries instead of tens of thousands of city-states. Or why so many markets in technology break down into natural monopolies/duopolies. The network effect, branding, lock-in, and minimizing customer confusion are fairly significant forces here on the customer end. Not to mention, the ability for large organizations to buy up smaller ones and also having the financial resources to soak up all the hot talent. From the abuse end of things, there's defeating smaller competitors with crony capitalism like patent abuse or predatory pricing, both of which larger entities have an easier time of doing.

EGreg 11y ago
Say that to a libertarian lol. Especially an anarcho-capitalist. I actually see this as a consequence of technology. Before git, version control was mostly centralized. Before Linux, WebKit and open source explosion, the OSes and browsers were manufactured by one or two main companies, and compared to what we expect now, the IE monopoly and other siloed monopoly products seemed terrible. I predict facebook will seem that way in the future when we have choice where to host our own social node, and which plugins to install. There is a lot of power imbalance with centralization. The consolidation of telcos led to the net neutrality debate, but the problem is central control by huge players. Amazon can squeeze publishers. Apple rules app developers with an iron fist. Twitter caused a ruckus knocking companies off their playform whenever they felt like it. Google can disconnect a website and have its traffic plummet. Etc etc. I think that when the technology exists, decentralization helps the consumer, through competition and raising their expectations.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  Except your argument doesn't work well because we're centralizing FOSS. (perhaps I am misunderstanding your argument?) So you still have linux, webkit, etc. You just get linux nowadays via AWS, Linode, etc. And you get Webkit via Apple or Google. Its not one or the other. These two systems can work hand-in-hand. FOSS commingling with commercial centralization has been quite the success story. FOSS on its own as PoC's or nerd toys chatted about in IRC isn't enough to get real market penetration.
  - EGreg 11y ago
    I don't see it that way. We don't get WebKit through Google and Apple. We get long tail contributions to the project: https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus... What we have is centralization in phone manufacturers when it comes to Apple, but not Android. Google tried to re-centralize by making the Play Store but Amazon and others already forked Android. In fact, Chrome is a fork of WebKit which Apple started for Safari! And that is how we had such an acceleration of features. Open source and commercial competition. I don't deny FOSS commingles with commercial offerings. Rather I'm saying that when platforms became freely forkable, the quality AND the freedom rose dramatically. That has yet to happen in social -- as you say, Diaspora* didn't take off. But once there is a viable FOSS social tech platform, it will disrupt all the big players. Who needs http://twitter.com/MyBrand http://twitter.com/MyBrand when I can just add the Twitter module to mybrand.com ! You can also see the problems with Facebook campaigning for India to have a billion people have their internet signal go to Facebook's server farms. Besides state spy agencies, this is also simply bad engineering. Early internet apps like email worked even if email.com was down. I could use the local network. I think we will actually soon have software that runs on social mesh networks and that's going to enable everyone in the world to share files, communicate and collaborate faster and wasting less energy than going through a central hub. You'll see a re decentralization of the internet in the next several years.
    - krakensden 11y ago
      There isn't much of a long tail to browser development these days, the build requirements are too crazy. And the identi.ca crowd has been around from the beginning, with no more uptake than they ever had.

EGreg 11y ago

Say that to a libertarian lol. Especially an anarcho-capitalist. I actually see this as a consequence of technology. Before git, version control was mostly centralized. Before Linux, WebKit and open source explosion, the OSes and browsers were manufactured by one or two main companies, and compared to what we expect now, the IE monopoly and other siloed monopoly products seemed terrible. I predict facebook will seem that way in the future when we have choice where to host our own social node, and which plugins to install. There is a lot of power imbalance with centralization. The consolidation of telcos led to the net neutrality debate, but the problem is central control by huge players. Amazon can squeeze publishers. Apple rules app developers with an iron fist. Twitter caused a ruckus knocking companies off their playform whenever they felt like it. Google can disconnect a website and have its traffic plummet. Etc etc. I think that when the technology exists, decentralization helps the consumer, through competition and raising their expectations.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Except your argument doesn't work well because we're centralizing FOSS. (perhaps I am misunderstanding your argument?) So you still have linux, webkit, etc. You just get linux nowadays via AWS, Linode, etc. And you get Webkit via Apple or Google. Its not one or the other. These two systems can work hand-in-hand. FOSS commingling with commercial centralization has been quite the success story. FOSS on its own as PoC's or nerd toys chatted about in IRC isn't enough to get real market penetration.
- EGreg 11y ago
  I don't see it that way. We don't get WebKit through Google and Apple. We get long tail contributions to the project: https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus... What we have is centralization in phone manufacturers when it comes to Apple, but not Android. Google tried to re-centralize by making the Play Store but Amazon and others already forked Android. In fact, Chrome is a fork of WebKit which Apple started for Safari! And that is how we had such an acceleration of features. Open source and commercial competition. I don't deny FOSS commingles with commercial offerings. Rather I'm saying that when platforms became freely forkable, the quality AND the freedom rose dramatically. That has yet to happen in social -- as you say, Diaspora* didn't take off. But once there is a viable FOSS social tech platform, it will disrupt all the big players. Who needs http://twitter.com/MyBrand http://twitter.com/MyBrand when I can just add the Twitter module to mybrand.com ! You can also see the problems with Facebook campaigning for India to have a billion people have their internet signal go to Facebook's server farms. Besides state spy agencies, this is also simply bad engineering. Early internet apps like email worked even if email.com was down. I could use the local network. I think we will actually soon have software that runs on social mesh networks and that's going to enable everyone in the world to share files, communicate and collaborate faster and wasting less energy than going through a central hub. You'll see a re decentralization of the internet in the next several years.
  - krakensden 11y ago
    There isn't much of a long tail to browser development these days, the build requirements are too crazy. And the identi.ca crowd has been around from the beginning, with no more uptake than they ever had.