7 ms·

Pacman-5.0 Released

66 points by ferrari8608 11y ago

simula67 11y ago
Still no parallel download support ? https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/20056 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/20056
- Svenstaro 11y ago
  Why isn't a XferCommand that by itself downloads chunks concurrently good enough for you?
  - simula67 11y ago
    There are multiple ways to do it, but the defaults matter.
  - broodbucket 11y ago
    XferCommands are confusing to write. I have one, and it makes my downloads faster, though I wouldn't have a clue how to write it myself. Here's what I have currently: XferCommand = /usr/bin/printf 'Downloading ' && echo %u | awk -F/ '{printf $NF}' && printf '...' && /usr/bin/aria2c -q --allow-overwrite=true -c --file-allocation=none --log-level=error -m2 --max-connection-per-server=2 --max-file-not-found=5 --min-split-size=5M --no-conf --remote-time=true --summary-interval=0 -t5 -d / -o %o %u && echo ' Complete!' It's fast, but doesn't have download progress. I had another one, which printed several lines of output per file (but did have progress!). My point is, the fact that you can make pacman download stuff quickly as-is, doesn't mean that inbuilt support wouldn't be beneficial for everyone who doesn't know how their downloading program works back-to-front.
  - codyps 11y ago
    iirc, apt has support for it (it will only download a single thing at a time from a given host, but does appear to download different things from different hosts at the same time). I believe gentoo's emerge also has support (though I'm not as sure here as I typically have the downloads happen in the background while building). The overall goal here is to more effectively utilize the available bandwidth on the client side even when there are limitations a given server. It's great that we can customize how to download 1 package at a time. But there is room for improvement.
- angvp 11y ago
  As Dan (toofishes) would say, "patches welcome" :)
- GigabyteCoin 11y ago
  That would be nice, but perhaps a bit rough on the free CDNs who are nice enough to host the packages?
  - codyps 11y ago
    I don't think it would be. Parallel downloads would simply mean that more of the client's bandwidth is consumed by connecting to multiple mirrors at once. Each individual mirror will, at most, still supply the same total bytes and bandwidth (though it's likely that being able to download form multiple mirrors at once would end up lowering an individual mirror's overall load by more effectively spreading downloaders between different mirrors)
- anc84 11y ago
  Do you really need that? I max out any bandwidth I throw at good mirrors. Only the database syncing could be faster.
- laumars 11y ago
  Parallel downloads are available, albeit via a 3rd party tool, `Powerpill` [1] [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/powerpill https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/powerpill Personally though, I've never had an issue with the performance of `pacman`. Even without parallel downloads I've found `pacman` generally outperforms most other package management tools I've used.
  - zipperhead 11y ago
    I just do this in an overnight cron: `pacman -Syuw --noconfirm` It pulls down all the updated packages but doesn't install. The packages are then ready for update when you are.
- Esau 11y ago
  I don't see the need for it.
cyphar 11y ago
I wish the package-query maintainers would stop hard coding the pacman version in their PKGBUILD as requirements. It means that every time there's a minor release of pacman, updating breaks for the 6 hours it takes the AUR guys to catch up.
- creshal 11y ago
  There's tons of alternatives to yaourt, thankfully.
  - cyphar 11y ago
    But AFAIK they all use package-query (pacaur does IIRC).
    - heinrich5991 11y ago
      `packer` does not: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/packer/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/packer/
    - creshal 11y ago
      https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/package-query/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/package-query/ Only pacupg does, according to this. pacaur, cower, apacman, packer, and all the others (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_helpers https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_helpers) don't.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    I still manually build off the AUR and don't use AUR package management.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      yaourt & co. are very useful when you have to build packages with tons of dependencies. I had to build the 32-bit gstreamer stuff from AUR for some Wine work recently, and it saved me tons of time. Just remember to set --noconfirm or it'll ask you to confirm a dozen things for every package :)
metasean 11y ago
Some of the comments here reminded me of another recent post, and in particular these statements... >Do not start an open source project if you need praise, warmth and love from your fellow human beings. [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11053810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11053810 ] >Folks forget that most FOSS work is volunteer & berating the hackers who make it won't help one bit. [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11054809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11054809 ]
- codyps 11y ago
  Well, the front page did recently have people complaining about a bunch of paid products (github, twitter, everything IBM does). I'd expect us to treat open source projects like any other, and part of that is by noting their failings. Incentivising fixing those (or doing the fixing) does happen in different ways, but this isn't a development forum :) I'd say: > don't post anything publicly if you want only [warm fuzzy feelings]"
  - blowski 11y ago
    There is 'total compensation' to consider, though. If you're getting paid big money to work on something, you can probably swallow the criticism fairly easily. But if you're not being paid any money, and there are zero warm fuzzy feelings, it's harder to stay motivated.
xerophyte12932 11y ago
Am I the only one that read the title and thought this was Pacman the game? I am surprised they let you use the name for something else considering it's supposed to be highly copyright-protected. Sidenote: I am having trouble finding the link to an explanation what this really is. any help?
- jdsnape 11y ago
  pacman is the package manager for archlinux: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pacman https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pacman
- laumars 11y ago
  The game you're thinking of is 'Pac-Man' (hyphenated). This is a package management tool for ArchLinux. Similar to 'yum' for RHEL. Or Debians 'apt-*', 'dpkg' tools.
  - aikah 11y ago
    It also work on Windows, it's what MSYS uses for package management, convenient to avoid having to install CYGIN or using virtualisation.
    - riffraff 11y ago
      msys uses pacman? Is there another msys than the one at mingw.org[0] ? I believe you but I just can't find any reference to pacman there. [0] http://www.mingw.org/wiki/msys http://www.mingw.org/wiki/msys
      - green7ea 11y ago
        I googled 'msys pacman' and it seems that msys2 uses pacman: http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/ http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/
      - kryptiskt 11y ago
        He means MSYS2 https://msys2.github.io/ https://msys2.github.io/ It's great, it has a wonderful collection of libs, sometimes it can feel a little bit too cutting edge, but after the stagnation of Mingw I'm not complaining about that.
sotaan 11y ago
Someone already got an implementation of a hook? No idea how it should be used...
- Dosenpfand 11y ago
  It's explained in the linked article and it even links to an examples repo: https://github.com/andrewgregory/pachooks https://github.com/andrewgregory/pachooks

Pacman-5.0 Released

66 points by ferrari8608 11y ago

simula67 11y ago

Still no parallel download support ? https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/20056 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/20056

Svenstaro 11y ago
Why isn't a XferCommand that by itself downloads chunks concurrently good enough for you?
- simula67 11y ago
  There are multiple ways to do it, but the defaults matter.
- broodbucket 11y ago
  XferCommands are confusing to write. I have one, and it makes my downloads faster, though I wouldn't have a clue how to write it myself. Here's what I have currently: XferCommand = /usr/bin/printf 'Downloading ' && echo %u | awk -F/ '{printf $NF}' && printf '...' && /usr/bin/aria2c -q --allow-overwrite=true -c --file-allocation=none --log-level=error -m2 --max-connection-per-server=2 --max-file-not-found=5 --min-split-size=5M --no-conf --remote-time=true --summary-interval=0 -t5 -d / -o %o %u && echo ' Complete!' It's fast, but doesn't have download progress. I had another one, which printed several lines of output per file (but did have progress!). My point is, the fact that you can make pacman download stuff quickly as-is, doesn't mean that inbuilt support wouldn't be beneficial for everyone who doesn't know how their downloading program works back-to-front.
- codyps 11y ago
  iirc, apt has support for it (it will only download a single thing at a time from a given host, but does appear to download different things from different hosts at the same time). I believe gentoo's emerge also has support (though I'm not as sure here as I typically have the downloads happen in the background while building). The overall goal here is to more effectively utilize the available bandwidth on the client side even when there are limitations a given server. It's great that we can customize how to download 1 package at a time. But there is room for improvement.
angvp 11y ago
As Dan (toofishes) would say, "patches welcome" :)
GigabyteCoin 11y ago
That would be nice, but perhaps a bit rough on the free CDNs who are nice enough to host the packages?
- codyps 11y ago
  I don't think it would be. Parallel downloads would simply mean that more of the client's bandwidth is consumed by connecting to multiple mirrors at once. Each individual mirror will, at most, still supply the same total bytes and bandwidth (though it's likely that being able to download form multiple mirrors at once would end up lowering an individual mirror's overall load by more effectively spreading downloaders between different mirrors)
anc84 11y ago
Do you really need that? I max out any bandwidth I throw at good mirrors. Only the database syncing could be faster.
laumars 11y ago
Parallel downloads are available, albeit via a 3rd party tool, `Powerpill` [1] [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/powerpill https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/powerpill Personally though, I've never had an issue with the performance of `pacman`. Even without parallel downloads I've found `pacman` generally outperforms most other package management tools I've used.
- zipperhead 11y ago
  I just do this in an overnight cron: `pacman -Syuw --noconfirm` It pulls down all the updated packages but doesn't install. The packages are then ready for update when you are.
Esau 11y ago
I don't see the need for it.

cyphar 11y ago

I wish the package-query maintainers would stop hard coding the pacman version in their PKGBUILD as requirements. It means that every time there's a minor release of pacman, updating breaks for the 6 hours it takes the AUR guys to catch up.

creshal 11y ago
There's tons of alternatives to yaourt, thankfully.
- cyphar 11y ago
  But AFAIK they all use package-query (pacaur does IIRC).
  - heinrich5991 11y ago
    `packer` does not: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/packer/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/packer/
  - creshal 11y ago
    https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/package-query/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/package-query/ Only pacupg does, according to this. pacaur, cower, apacman, packer, and all the others (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_helpers https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_helpers) don't.
- baldfat 11y ago
  I still manually build off the AUR and don't use AUR package management.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    yaourt & co. are very useful when you have to build packages with tons of dependencies. I had to build the 32-bit gstreamer stuff from AUR for some Wine work recently, and it saved me tons of time. Just remember to set --noconfirm or it'll ask you to confirm a dozen things for every package :)

metasean 11y ago

Some of the comments here reminded me of another recent post, and in particular these statements... >Do not start an open source project if you need praise, warmth and love from your fellow human beings. [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11053810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11053810 ] >Folks forget that most FOSS work is volunteer & berating the hackers who make it won't help one bit. [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11054809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11054809 ]

codyps 11y ago
Well, the front page did recently have people complaining about a bunch of paid products (github, twitter, everything IBM does). I'd expect us to treat open source projects like any other, and part of that is by noting their failings. Incentivising fixing those (or doing the fixing) does happen in different ways, but this isn't a development forum :) I'd say: > don't post anything publicly if you want only [warm fuzzy feelings]"
- blowski 11y ago
  There is 'total compensation' to consider, though. If you're getting paid big money to work on something, you can probably swallow the criticism fairly easily. But if you're not being paid any money, and there are zero warm fuzzy feelings, it's harder to stay motivated.

xerophyte12932 11y ago

Am I the only one that read the title and thought this was Pacman the game? I am surprised they let you use the name for something else considering it's supposed to be highly copyright-protected. Sidenote: I am having trouble finding the link to an explanation what this really is. any help?

jdsnape 11y ago
pacman is the package manager for archlinux: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pacman https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pacman
laumars 11y ago
The game you're thinking of is 'Pac-Man' (hyphenated). This is a package management tool for ArchLinux. Similar to 'yum' for RHEL. Or Debians 'apt-*', 'dpkg' tools.
- aikah 11y ago
  It also work on Windows, it's what MSYS uses for package management, convenient to avoid having to install CYGIN or using virtualisation.
  - riffraff 11y ago
    msys uses pacman? Is there another msys than the one at mingw.org[0] ? I believe you but I just can't find any reference to pacman there. [0] http://www.mingw.org/wiki/msys http://www.mingw.org/wiki/msys
    - green7ea 11y ago
      I googled 'msys pacman' and it seems that msys2 uses pacman: http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/ http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/MSYS2%20installation/
    - kryptiskt 11y ago
      He means MSYS2 https://msys2.github.io/ https://msys2.github.io/ It's great, it has a wonderful collection of libs, sometimes it can feel a little bit too cutting edge, but after the stagnation of Mingw I'm not complaining about that.

sotaan 11y ago

Someone already got an implementation of a hook? No idea how it should be used...

Dosenpfand 11y ago
It's explained in the linked article and it even links to an examples repo: https://github.com/andrewgregory/pachooks https://github.com/andrewgregory/pachooks