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It seems regulation has failed to curb this behavior.

by dhbanes 11y ago

Spooky23 11y ago
Not true. In New York, regulations have virtually eliminated common frauds. For example, funeral homes are required to place prepayments in escrow in an interest bearing account. That protects you from unscrupulous or failed funeral homes disappearing with your money. Funeral directors are also not allowed to upsell your relatives after you have pre-planned a funeral.
- pdonis 11y ago
  How much do these government regulations increase the average price of a funeral? How do we know the extra protection is worth the cost?
  - Spooky23 11y ago
    Good question. It didn't occur to me that allowing people to systematically defraud the elderly and grieving folks might save me money.
    - pdonis 11y ago
      You're missing the point. The theory behind the regulations is that, without them, the funeral companies will make extra profits by selling people services they don't really need. If that theory is correct, then the funeral companies' response to the regulations will be to raise prices on the services they are allowed to sell, to make up for the lost profits on the services they can't sell any more. If they raise their prices enough, everyone might actually be worse off, on net, than they were before the regulations--sure, they're not paying for extra services any more, but they're paying enough more for the services they do need that they actually end up paying more overall. It seems to me that anyone who is in favor of the regulations should at least have some kind of data to show that the above is not the case.
      - fennecfoxen 11y ago
        > raise prices on the services they are allowed to sell, to make up for the lost profits on the services they can't sell any more. Economics doesn't work that way. If a company is out to maximize profit (and any company that stoops to fraud is almost certainly out to maximize profit), why would they wait until regulation to artificially raise prices? Their prices are as high as they can go already. Harmful regulation raises prices by raising the price of inputs and raising the marginal cost of an additional product, resulting in fewer transactions being profitable and a deadweight loss to both the consumer and producer (split according to how price-sensitive the two sides are.)
        pdonis 11y ago
        > Their prices are as high as they can go already. "As high as they can go" in what sense? If you mean their prices before regulation were determined by supply and demand, then the market was working and there was no need for the regulation. If you mean their prices were determined by something else, what? > Harmful regulation raises prices by raising the price of inputs That's one way regulation can be harmful, but not the only way. Another way is for it to outlaw positive sum transactions that, in its absence, would have taken place. You're assuming without proof that the regulations in question "know" exactly which transactions are the "right" ones to outlaw. No real regulation has ever been anywhere close to that accurate.

It seems regulation has failed to curb this behavior.

by dhbanes 11y ago

It seems regulation has failed to curb this behavior.

Not true. In New York, regulations have virtually eliminated common frauds. For example, funeral homes are required to place prepayments in escrow in an interest bearing account. That protects you from unscrupulous or failed funeral homes disappearing with your money. Funeral directors are also not allowed to upsell your relatives after you have pre-planned a funeral.

pdonis 11y ago
How much do these government regulations increase the average price of a funeral? How do we know the extra protection is worth the cost?
- Spooky23 11y ago
  Good question. It didn't occur to me that allowing people to systematically defraud the elderly and grieving folks might save me money.
  - pdonis 11y ago
    You're missing the point. The theory behind the regulations is that, without them, the funeral companies will make extra profits by selling people services they don't really need. If that theory is correct, then the funeral companies' response to the regulations will be to raise prices on the services they are allowed to sell, to make up for the lost profits on the services they can't sell any more. If they raise their prices enough, everyone might actually be worse off, on net, than they were before the regulations--sure, they're not paying for extra services any more, but they're paying enough more for the services they do need that they actually end up paying more overall. It seems to me that anyone who is in favor of the regulations should at least have some kind of data to show that the above is not the case.
    - fennecfoxen 11y ago
      > raise prices on the services they are allowed to sell, to make up for the lost profits on the services they can't sell any more. Economics doesn't work that way. If a company is out to maximize profit (and any company that stoops to fraud is almost certainly out to maximize profit), why would they wait until regulation to artificially raise prices? Their prices are as high as they can go already. Harmful regulation raises prices by raising the price of inputs and raising the marginal cost of an additional product, resulting in fewer transactions being profitable and a deadweight loss to both the consumer and producer (split according to how price-sensitive the two sides are.)
      - pdonis 11y ago
        > Their prices are as high as they can go already. "As high as they can go" in what sense? If you mean their prices before regulation were determined by supply and demand, then the market was working and there was no need for the regulation. If you mean their prices were determined by something else, what? > Harmful regulation raises prices by raising the price of inputs That's one way regulation can be harmful, but not the only way. Another way is for it to outlaw positive sum transactions that, in its absence, would have taken place. You're assuming without proof that the regulations in question "know" exactly which transactions are the "right" ones to outlaw. No real regulation has ever been anywhere close to that accurate.